Comparison of chain stores blends

[kingseven]

I bought bags of beans from the three big chains in the UK and I took them home for review. (Costa Vs Nero Vs Starbucks)

Sort of what I expected, though the biggest hindrance to having a good cup of coffee wasn't the beans themselves, or the roast (except in one case) but freshness.

Not one bag was particularly fresh.

Full write up here

(I hope this doesn't somehow get me into trouble!)

[CakeBoy]

I used to buy bags of beans from the chains before I knew better, but was never satisfied, which in part led me to TMC.

Starbucks always tastes simply burnt to me, it matters not which variety of bean is in the bag. I have not tried Nero at home because for me their product is undrinkable in store. Costa have a reasonable blend in my opinion, but as you say, staleness is the issue. In store, I have found the occasional barista at Costa able to produce but it is a lottery, and again it is stale anyway.

Can people not taste stale, they would in a cake or sandwich? It is unbelievable that most people in the UK have never tasted real coffee made properly. Criminal.

Great article as ever Jim.

[chemistone]

If you are finished in the UK can you please move to the NLs. There is a lot of work to do here as well and the Dutch TMCers can't do it all alone .

[Davec]

The last time I was in Starbucks (not out of personal choice), I observed the following problems:

1. Beans roasted blacker than Breakos (I asked to look in the grinder)
2. 6 second gushing shot
3. Mazzer grinders had the littel peg to move the adjusting ring removed, so couldn't be adjusted.
4. Coffee put in wet portafilters
5. Coffee not properly tamped
6. Coffee left in locked and loaded portafilter (ready to go for next customer, this could have been 10 mins later).
7. Portafilters not cleaned properly between shots (old grounds)

I could go on, needless to say....I took the coffee back, told them it was undrinkable and asked them to replace it for a tea. I did write to their head office detailing some of the problems, especially those with the roasting (which really is just burnt, any characteristics of the coffee were long gone up the chimney). Their reply was the usual platitudes and how they strive for quality and their coffee is of the finest ingredients blah blah and did offer me some vouchers for free drinks if I sent my name and address....but I havn't bothered. Yes, not even if it's free!

In general the Cafe Nero chains seem to be of slightly better quality than many of the other big chains. That said, the sad fact of life is that the majority of high street coffee shops serve a very substandard beverage and will continue to do so whilst the public patronise their establishments.

In many ways it's a reflection of the quality of coffee people buy in the supermarkets, a sad fact of life when you could get better coffee beans in Sainsburys in 1966 than you can today (because they used to roast them fresh in old Trentate drum roasters)! It's also a reflection of customer expectations and values....they cook fresh bread, cakes, chickens etc.. in store, but they don't roast fresh coffee in store, which wouldn't be very hard to do either with some of the computerised roasters!

[espressomattic]

Here here Dave.

I found Costas to be better than the average High Street Store, and the chap in Weymouth really did an excellent job with Costa Beans. Shame Costa didn't take any notes from him!!!!

That said, I noticed the brew tasted 'old' but it was confirimed when my dearly beloved said at the harbour side 'I can't explain it, but this just diesn't taste as fresh as your home roast'. She is not as Geeky as the rest of us, but she noticed the difference herself.

Either we are spoilt or society is just sad!

Matt

[bruceb]

Can people not taste stale, they would in a cake or sandwich? It is unbelievable that most people in the UK have never tasted real coffee made properly. Criminal.

No, they can't taste stale...or burnt...or anything...and it's not people in the UK. It's people in much or most of northern Europe (and the US, I guess). When I hear someone exclaim about how good the coffee is I hear, "BIG CUP" or "Free refills" and maybe "Hot!"

My sister-in-law and her lesser-half come over regularly and they bring preground drip-grind coffee with them because my espresso drinks are not big enough for them (ie. not enough volume). When I made them an Americano they said it was "too strong" and besides "only one of them" woudn't do and I would have to get up from the table to make another. When they come I just pull out the old drip coffee maker and let them make their own. They each drink about a quart of the crap. They are not unusual.

Coffee is black, hot and liquid. The more the better. The hotter the better. Stale? How can coffee be stale? They will argue over brand, although all brands are stale and taste like old shoe soles. I've certainly given up trying to convince anyone of anything. My wife is one of the few people who can tell the difference and enjoys my coffee.

This is the reason I don't believe it's really worth trying to educate restaurant or café owners. From a business point of view they are right just to ignore the coffee. People will drink practially anything.

[lukas]

Bruce, try a French Press, Vacuum pot or an Aerobie! When my to-be parents in law, I always dig out the 1ltr French press (they normally drink Aldi coffee ...) and they even like the Yrgacheffe ...

[kingseven]

Can people not taste stale, they would in a cake or sandwich? It is unbelievable that most people in the UK have never tasted real coffee made properly. Criminal.

No, they can't taste stale...or burnt...or anything...and it's not people in the UK. It's people in much or most of northern Europe (and the US, I guess). When I hear someone exclaim about how good the coffee is I hear, "BIG CUP" or "Free refills" and maybe "Hot!"

My sister-in-law and her lesser-half come over regularly and they bring preground drip-grind coffee with them because my espresso drinks are not big enough for them (ie. not enough volume). When I made them an Americano they said it was "too strong" and besides "only one of them" woudn't do and I would have to get up from the table to make another. When they come I just pull out the old drip coffee maker and let them make their own. They each drink about a quart of the crap. They are not unusual.

Coffee is black, hot and liquid. The more the better. The hotter the better. Stale? How can coffee be stale? They will argue over brand, although all brands are stale and taste like old shoe soles. I've certainly given up trying to convince anyone of anything. My wife is one of the few people who can tell the difference and enjoys my coffee.

This is the reason I don't believe it's really worth trying to educate restaurant or café owners. From a business point of view they are right just to ignore the coffee. People will drink practially anything.

I would disagree. I think they like a style of coffee, but if you took that drip machine and brewed fresh good coffee and brewed older, staler,darker roast I would say 9 out of 10 people would pick the fresh stuff (though not all of them could explain why perhaps).

[bruceb]

When I used a French Press the coffee wasn't hot enough. I wouldn't use boiling water and as a consequence the coffee was only about 90°C when I served it. Never mind that no one can drink coffee that hot, it wasn't steaming.

You know, the whole point is this: People just generally don't care how coffee tastes, except they don't like espresso because it's too "strong." Mose people just really don't notice a difference between fresh and stale, between a Robusta corruption and a CoE. This is way I say it's not worth trying to educate or convert. If someone says he's unhappy with the way coffee tastes then you can try, but most people don't seem to care a bit. They get what they deserve and they get what they want. Nothing unjust about that.

[bruceb]

Jim, maybe you're right, maybe they could tell the difference, but the ones I know (and I really don't think this is an exception) would not walk across the street to get a better cup, unless it was cheaper.

They just don't care. I have no experience with this in Britain, so maybe it's different there. Certainly here in Germany and in France and the US coffee is something you drink lots of, hot, wet.

I have a good friend who is a very knowledgeable fan of fine cuisine and a good cook. He visits me often and we spend long hours, cooking, discussing whether capers in salt are better than capers in olive oil, whether Galloways or Charolais proved the best prime rib, etc. But when it comes to coffee my friend has no interest in freshly roasted, says it tastes better, but it isn't worth the trouble. Prosetylising is a waste of time.

[motoman]

The problem with coffee in restaurants is that it comes at the end of the meal, they want you out so that the table is available for the next customer. Just think of the losses they would make if you lingered over a decent cup of the brown stuff. Most chefs do not drink coffee because they do not like the taste, a recent visit by my son accompanied by a chef was a relevation to him, he has since purchased a grinder but the cafe will go on serving dross.

[Captain_Crema]

For several years I went to Mangiare (an Italian chain in London) for my morning hit. Cappuccino with an extra shot - and it was really lovely. Then, the branch I frequented closed doewn for refurbishment and I was sorely disappointed. When I checked, a couple of months later, there was a sign on the door saying it had been taken back by the landlord (ie, it's now closed for good). Instead I went to Starbucks. For a couple of days, that is. Then, I took a French press into work and no longer spent over £2.00 for a cup of lousy coffee.

Since I got the Aeropress at work, I have never looked back.

[Steem21]

I would disagree. I think they like a style of coffee, but if you took that drip machine and brewed fresh good coffee and brewed older, staler,darker roast I would say 9 out of 10 people would pick the fresh stuff (though not all of them could explain why perhaps).

Well, one of my office colleagues finally plucked up the courage to ask me for a taste of the coffee from the Aerobie. I asked her to make her usual instant coffee ("Columbian" from Nescafe) and I had brought in freshly ground Grandma's coffee from HB (Bertha's Paramito). She KNEW instantly my coffee tasted better but couldn't put her finger on it. I don't think her tastebuds knew what they were tasting. It took her a while to say how they were different. No bitterness was one big difference and that the coffee tasted "lighter" and slightly fruity - it took her the whole cup to reach her final diagnosis! Now she's binned her instant. I'm going to try this experiment on my in laws soon....But I'm pretty sure they'll know freshness when it hits their tastebuds.

[espressomattic]

All my shift love the fresh coffee and rave about it to others. They have all said just how nice it is compared to cheaper more well known brands.

[JonEdwards]

I find the whole "taste" thing fascinating.

I was brought up (late '70s and '80s) in an environment where taste was irrelevant. You ate what was put in front of you, and you did it as quickly as possible. Not "liking" it was NOT an excuse for not eating it.

As a result I absolutely CANNOT describe taste, or really even remember it in any detail. I know what I like, and can remember the situation where I got it. I can remember (& describe) texture and looks. For example, I went to Flat White for the first time this week. The espresso was stunning. I can't describe what it tasted like though, other than "like espresso should do" , It was a darker red colour, with more pronounced flecking than the shots I pull at home and a touch smoother. It also didn't need any sugar (I usually use 1/2 a spoonful in my espresso shots). The same goes for food. I *know* the organic beef from Daisy the (unlucky) cow my SO bought from Borough Market last weekend was "beefier" (& therefore "better") than the usual Sinsbury's fare.

I wonder how many more people there are like me out there. I'm gradually (mostly due to effort from the missus) experiencing better and better food (It's nice, but I do view it as a luxury. If all that is available is cr@p, then I'm still happy to eat it - she won't). I'm driving the coffee thing, because I drink more of it, and its kinda turning into a hobby (and there's good guidance from TMC about what I should be experiencing ). I suspect for most people, buying "good quality" foodstuffs is a fashion thing. Taste is secondary to being seen in Waitrose with a trolley full of organic/fairtrade/whatever food. The same is true for coffee. All the Sloaney/S'only types in our office turn up with their Nero takeaway lattes in the morning, not because it's good coffee, but because it matches the look of their Prada bag and Jimmy Choos. It's (relatively) expensive, it's trendy and it's easily available, therefore it's the "done thing". I'm one of 2 people in the office with a machine (and the other one is a pod thing), so I'm the only one with any experience that things CAN be better.

FWIW (with relevance to the initial post), I avoid *$ like the plague, because it never actually tastes of anything at all. Nero is "Ok", not great but you do get a pretty consistent standard and it does taste of coffee. Their macchiatos are acceptable as a quick "fix". I never seem to be near a Costa... Beans for home use WILL come from Monmouth though...