Coffee Map

[BazBean]

Kingseven started a cracking idea of the UK map with best places on. which i for one, think should have more prominent position on the sites main page ...... maybe poor experiences could be added to give balance.

[CakeBoy]

I for one did not know of it Baz. Sounds like a great idea

[Gouezeri]

(EDIT)
Split this from the other thread so that it could be discussed separately and in more detail.

Kingseven started a cracking idea of the UK map with best places on. which i for one, think should have more prominent position on the sites main page ...... maybe poor experiences could be added to give balance.

Agree with you entirely Baz, and hopefully we'll be able to sort something out, right off the front page for TMC II. However, with some thought, can you begin to imagine what the map of "poor experiences" would like for somewhere like London!!! Anybody know if there is a directory listing for *$?

On a more serious note, the other Mods and I are always keen to hear about positive experiences, much more so than negative ones. Obviously any additions to a map would be linked to specific members, therefore if you trust a member's opinion on the forum generally, their recommendations should be also worth considering. What we'd be looking for are places that get it right most of the time.
D

[scottwhite]

A map is a really bad idea , not only open to corruption but also down to personal taste and there will be days when everyone gets it wrong even if the drinks are good 99% of the time, it just wouldn't be fair in my opinion.

If anyone remembers coffeepolice rumour has it that that was used for all the wrong reasons, just something I heard , not my opinion, but notice how it no longer exists.

[Steve]

The coffee police as far as I could see Scott was a way for Mathew Algie to collect free market research and get a foot in the door of coffee shops, not something I'm in favour of but you got to admire the thinking and the balls behind it.

I'm with you I think the map thing could be dangerous, not something I'd like to "police"

[CakeBoy]

Fair comments Scott. There could be accusations of unfairness and it would be extremely difficult to ensure that opinion was not based on a single bad experience. That would not be fair as you rightly say.

The only way around this would seem to be a sticky thread in which individual experiences are posted. They would remain the opinion of the poster rather than the collective and any criticism of a specific visit somewhere would be just that, an objective view of someones experience as a one off relating to what they were served for their money. That would be much fairer in the short term, and of course if the same names keep coming up over and over, people can draw their own conclusions.

Now before the following rant takes place, this is not aimed at anyone at all on TMC. I want to make that clear! It is about unscrupulous cafe owners who make rubbish and would do so with any beans at all because they either don't know how to do better in which case they have about as much business selling coffee as I would flying the space shuttle or they simply don't care. Either way, they should not claim to be something they are not, i.e. a barista.

We all know that coffee in some establishments is relatively expensive compared to what can be made at home. It can be £2-£3 in some "speciality" outlets. That is fine, we know the price before we order and I doubt anyone on TMC fails to understand the cost of running a business.

What is interesting and is often overlooked is that in general consumers expect to receive what they pay for - and they complain when it is sub-standard. However, there appears to be an attitude in the coffee industry that for various constraints of time and convenience that it is not logistically possible to produce the same quality as can be made at home and that there is too high an expectation by the consumer. Fine, then take down all the advertising about exceptional coffee made with passion and expertise and cut the cost significantly to fairly represent the beverage on offer. If it's a £1 greasy Joe coffee then charge that amount and stop misleading discerning consumers into believeing that the product on offer is of the quality they seek.

In short, if it is an average coffee then fine but don't pretend it is world class and charge accordingly. If you make it out to be something it is not or you don't have the care and skills to produce either an average coffee or a world class one properly expect the complaints that you deserve for both the poor product and the disappointment caused by the advertising disception that is frankly very deliberate.

Who here would go into the M&S food shop and pay £5 for a wonderfully advertised main course and not complain if inside the packaging you found nothing but a cheap market stall pie and to compound matters the pastry was not even made properly? Everyone I would bet and M&S would expect that to happen too, so why do coffee outlets appear so surprised when people who know good from bad get cross at their antics?

It's time they walked the walk if they talk the talk. Time to cut the crap so we don't have to talk about posting of poor experiences.

[chemistone]

Besides complaining about bad coffee, we could reward good coffee as well. We should be able to make a list of the best three coffee places and vote for the best place to drink coffee. The problem is that we aren't a large community and we are spread over a huge area in Europe, so the question is how much effect it will have. In the NL's we have several "tests", varying from haring (fish) to oliebollen (typical Dutch thing), were products from different shops are compared and rated. There has also been a coffee test, were different coffee's have been tasted and rated by a Dutch roaster called Barend Boot. Is has been published in a Dutch newspaper (AD) and the results can be found here.

What we want is to make the public and cafe owners aware of good coffee. If we could initiate such survey or "force" journalists, SCAE or whatever to do it, it would be great.

[BazBean]

Ok points noted...

use only as a guide for good coffee then, which actually is a better idea as a map for both would have a 95% to 5% split of bad to good.

[RobC]

I'm sure we have been down this road before, and the decision then was only positive remarks on establishments were an option for a public forum as Lawyers have very expensive lifestyles to fund. So are we starting the map with a big blob on Scarborough then??

[BazBean]

My Dear Roberto ..!
MODESTY prevents but when half dozen customers per day say "the best they have ever had" you got to believe them ...

sure you get same comments but for diffrent reasons my old son.

[Gouezeri]

The other side to this is, the more we support those who are doing things the right way, the more business they will do, the more people will learn how coffee should taste and hopefully the right business model will finally take hold! I'd say that it is pretty apparent that most places just aren't ready for constructive criticism, even when it is well intentioned, resulting in an all round unpleasant experience for the well meaning customer.

And then there are people in the trade like RobC who offer more than you could ever hope for

[bruceb]

On reconsidering this whole topic I came to a strange conclusion: If I lived in Rome where I could pop into virtually any bar, restaurant or pizza stand and get a good espresso I probably wouldn't have a room full of coffee equipment, 60 kg of green beans and I wouldn't be spending hours looking for new smilies to use on TMC.

[AlanP]

..............and I wouldn't be spending hours looking for new smilies to use on TMC.

[bruceb]

I guess I asked for that. And I guess I don't know how to add a URL with a "foreign" smiley, either.

Oh I get it.