Answering the "home roast" critics

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Answering the "home roast" critics

Postby DrZeus » Tue Jan 06, 2004 7:03 pm

I run a mailing list for expats in Portugal, and I'm in the middle of a spat with one of the members regarding coffee. Essentially, he's saying that industrialized coffee is far superior to home-roasted coffee. I would sure like to get your opinion on his latest email...give me something to send back that will put him in his place!

Furthermore coffee and bread are worlds apart, bread needs to be
fermented first and then is cooked at 200ºC.
Coffee on the other and is roasted at 290ºC in specialy controled
conditions.
You can't beat industrial hovens, those use special techniques such
as hot gas roasting and athmosfere control.

You can't replace them with one of those amateur coffe-roasters.
Common problems for home-roasted coffe are:
-Insuficient amidae to sugar transformation resulting in bitter taste
-irregular acid processing leading to acidity and more bitterness
-faulty protein to peptidae(oils = cafeol) degradation leading to
lack of texture, flavour and aroma (tastes like flour)
-excess of humidity and CO2 leading to lack of strength
-some grain burn-out leading to an unpleasant "burned coffee" taste
-oil oxidation caused by the lack of a controled athmosfere leading
to that unsurpassable ash taste.

I acept that industry in america makes a terrible coffee, but
something like the Italian Coffe industry is totaly out of the
amateurs league.
In general home or small retail roasting is a mith, you can't make
better coffee at home like you can't make a better Mercedes Benz at
home


What say ye, oh Protectors of the Home-Roasting art?
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Postby mnemonix » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:02 pm

No you can't build a mercedes at home, but I have built a Lotus 7 at home and I know which I'd prefer to drive, so there's no direct comparison to make !

So the first point is that industrial coffee roasters are producing quite a different product : a large volume, mass market, consistent and brand identifiable coffee. I simply can't buy a specific Yemen for which I have a taste from any of them and I doubt the coffee they do use is quite to the same speciality grade we use.

Second, they can't compete on freshness. Hardly any need to elaborate on that.

Now he may have a point with regard to some of the technical aspects of the roast, particularly with the 'set and forget' approach to some home roasters, but I see no reason why with a desire to understand the process and improve their results, a committed home roaster cannot overcome these specific issues and equal or surpass the results of the industrial roasters for all the reasons above.

Perhaps a more pertinent question is whether we can compete with the real craftsmen and their Probats !

Chris.
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Postby Raf » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:42 pm

What he says about small retail roasting being a myth: he's clearly blabbing there. I'll send him some of De Boe's Expresso (yeah, I know, that 'x' really marks the spot) roast: retail and very yum.
This week I am eagerly anticipating the first god shots from my La Spaziale machine....

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Postby Steve » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:47 pm

I think that home roasted coffee is a little like home made bread. Bread from the suppermarket is great and makes fine beans on toast, but have your tryed freshly baked homemmade bread. The quality and the inconsistanty of home made bread (coffee) makes it realy top notch. And then theres something in knowing exactly what is in your cup makes a real difference, to taste and all. And I care about each batch that comes out of the Ambex but its big ammount and I cant pays as much attention as as I do out of my Imex.

PS your friedns an ass ;)
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Postby alans » Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:30 am

When you go through someone's list of "arguments" and immediatly say "Rubbish" to each one is it even worth replying? He obviously has never had artisan quality roast coffee before and is making assumptions without knowledge (and then coming up with pseudo scientific rubbish to try and back it up). Home and small retail roasting is an artisan skill, it's like comparing a factory made plastic bowl with a hand turned wooden bowl.
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Postby DrZeus » Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:05 pm

Amen and amen...I won't even bother replying. It's amazing the lengths some people will go in order to be right.

However, I just had to share another post he made. This is in reply to a post I made regarding the science of proper espresso preparation (a cursory outline of it):

What you call science is in fact a myth!
A myth caused precisely by a simplified compreension of the physics
and chemistry involved.

When water runs trough the coffee it dissolves it, because it is hot,
a certain ammount of water will dissolve more coffee elements than
cold water wold do, but a certain ammount of hot water will only
dissolve a certain amount of coffee elements, if you have excess
coffee and a controled temperature, taking a single or a double will
result in the very same solution concentration.
The problem is that home appliances rarely have controled temperature
so the water is either to hot or to cold.
A common problem is that in the same coffe cup there will be diferent
concetrations.
Professional machines have temperature control, this allow for excess
coffee to be used, allowing longer runs.


This is just too laughable. :)

And, by the way, this guy is no friend of mine. Just a nutter on a mailing list. :P
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Postby alans » Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:43 pm

:lol: Perhaps you should keep it going for the comedy value ;)
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Postby DrZeus » Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:08 pm

I would actually love to write just one reply that addresses both of these posts he made. Simple, to-the-point, and scathing. I'd probably just email it privately, but I really don't want him to think he's gotten the better of me.

However, I'm not much of a word smith, so it wouldn't go over well enough. Probably better off just dropping it.
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Postby gruff » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:30 pm

I think he has well and truly missed the point. It's not simply about drinking a cup of coffee. I know that sounds a bit pretentious, but there is something highly satisfying about the whole process of making a great espresso at home (and now that I'm a seasoned roaster that includes the roasting too :D )

However it does take a certain type of person to enjoy the learning process. As mnemonix pointed out it's like comparing a mercedes with a Lotus 7. 90% of the time it's far more fun to drive the Lotus, far more demanding, and far more rewarding. On the other hand at 7am in the p*****g rain I'd probably get into the Merc! He's probably just never bothered to get out of his Merc.
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Postby phil » Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:00 pm

I have to say though that reinforces my view that TMC needs to stay a closed group!
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Postby Sunnyfield » Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:43 pm

The guy is a bit forceful (sounds familiar ;-)) but I don't think, from a factual point of view, that he is wrong. Still I wouldn't want to give up all of my home-roasting for commercial roasts, and that includes micro-roasters like Steve. The charm of artisan and craft is often killed in these Modern Times... often led by American 'revolutionisations'. (Sorry not intended as a sneer to you DrZeus).
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Postby Sunnyfield » Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:45 pm

Just reading my reply and it can be taken wrongly. I mean that mass-production and making everything more convenient takes the charm away. I did not mean to imply that micro-roasters do that, in contrary, they keep it alive and I really enjoy that! :-)
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Postby Steve » Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:53 pm

had me worried then mate ;) thought ya didnt love me anymore:) good to see ya back sunny you've been missed
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