drip pouring techniques

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drip pouring techniques

Postby dsc » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:21 pm

Hi guys,

recently I've been experimenting with various pouring techniques and was curious if anyone did anything similar? I know most vids for drip coffee show people pouring mostly in the centre, so that you don't mess up the sides, but I was always curious why? doesn't that overextract the coffee in the middle?

Also I was wondering how fast do you pour the water in? so that the whole thing takes 3min? I'm never able to do that, I'm usually finished in around 2min and if I grind finer I don't like the taste too much. Do you pour everything in at the same time and simply wait for the water to go through the coffee, or do you try to keep a low level of water above the grounds by pouring very slowly? Perhaps you use a pour-stop technique, pouring for a while, stoping, waiting for the water level to drop and then pouring some more?

Another thing is the colour the coffee has while you pour in the water. I tend to get a rather blond, pale colour near the end of the whole process, mostly in the places where I pour. Is that normal? or am I pouring too much water in the same spot?

Would be awesome if you could share your thoughts, perhaps go into the details of how various techniques affect taste for you?

Regards,
dsc.
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RE: drip pouring techniques

Postby Gouezeri » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:18 pm

Interesting Tom,
I've been wondering about a number of the above as well. To which I would add whether to stir or not, and what the ideal "coffee mound" should look like at the end of the extraction (flat or conical?).

I've really not had enough of a chance to play with all of the different variables. Here are a couple of things I have noted though. Getting a proper brew time of between 3-4 mins hasn't been that hard when brewing a decent amount of coffee (I've got a 6-8 cup and have been working around a 70g/1l ratio). I have found it harder in the past couple of days though, as I'm now only brewing for me and 1 mug (~300ml). I think I need to play with my grind some more though.

On the topic of pouring, I've been using one of my milk jugs as a pourer (better than an ordinary kettle I find). I also find it best to not let the water level drop too low. Rather than just pouring in the middle, I've been kind of doing circles, using the flow of water to keep the grounds moving and in contact. So I suppose I've gotten my best results out of a slow steady pour.

The two things that have surprised me the most though, are the importance of really rinsing the filter paper well before hand, and the quality of the water used. I was brewing some Macha and Vista at Christmas and could believe the difference I was getting due to the quality of the water. I am very much at the beginning of playing with my Chemex though. I'm not sure if I prefer it to AP yet or not. I do prefer it over FP though.

I presume you've read the epic Coffeed thread?
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RE: drip pouring techniques

Postby dsc » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:56 pm

Hi Dom,

epic Coffeed thread? I think I did but I can't say for sure.

Getting a proper brew time of between 3-4 mins hasn't been that hard when brewing a decent amount of coffee (I've got a 6-8 cup and have been working around a 70g/1l ratio).


That's also something that I was wondering about. People normally recommend 60-70g/l and a 3-4min brew time, but I don't think it's possible to achieve when brewing for a single cup or two cups without major grind setting changes. Now clearly time is a function of coffee amount, as with less coffee you get less resistance, thus shorter brew time. Should we indeed grind very fine to get the same brew time? I'm not so sure as this means more stuff will be extracted from the grinds which will already be quite fine, therefore increasing the risk of getting bad flavours. No one really seems to know how it should be done, which is actually one of the reasons I'm dying to get an ExtractMojo, there's so much experiments that can be done with it to understand the process a bit better.

I've also been using a milk jug, but now I simply wait for the water to reach 90*C in the kettle and then pour straight from it. I was thinking of getting a Hario kettle, but I'd still like to PID the kettle so that it's easier to hit the right water temps. I do circles as well and try to keep around and inch or so of water above the grinds (perhaps more I'd have to check). Maybe it's a good idea to take some vids and compare techniques?

I agree that water plays a huge role which isn't really a surprise the majority of the brew is water:)

Regards,
dsc.
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RE: drip pouring techniques

Postby Gouezeri » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:28 pm

Hah, go on, shove a thermocouple on/in a Hario :wink:

When I was looking to buy my chemex I discussed sizes with Steve, who is a far better cupper than I will ever be, and he reckoned that the 6-8 was the more manageable size than the next one up. I wonder whether anybody with a couple of different sizes would be prepared to do some testing for us.

Thinking back to the coffeed thread (link below), I remember a comment about brewing in a FP manner, but then filtering using the chemex (thus the body of FP, but with a 'cleaner' cup, in the grounds sense). This makes me think, if we're keeping a fair amount of water in the filter and the grounds are moving somewhat, then we're already creating less resistance, surely? Ie. the water is not filtering through a bed of grounds so much. I suppose this brings me back to my question of whether to stir or not. I'd also like to see something like a raomatic in action, to see whether its main purpose is to distribute the water or to manage the infusion rate as well.

Lots of questions, no real answers I'm afraid... and we'd need someone with a far finer palate than mine to make any conclusions!

Here is the coffeed thread... interesting read, few conclusions there either though.
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re

Postby dsc » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:40 pm

Hi Dom,

while I can easily stick a TC in a Hario kettle it would be quite hard to add a PID to it as it's a normal fire heated device, not an electrical version:|

Anyways I think the reason behind not knowing much is simply because hardly anyone cares about drip/FP. People rave about espresso and spend $$$ on espresso equipment simply ignoring probably the cheapest option to have good coffee (and that's probably because it doesn't go well with milk!).

This makes me think, if we're keeping a fair amount of water in the filter and the grounds are moving somewhat, then we're already creating less resistance, surely?


I'd agree, there's no pressure like in espresso brewing so the grinds can do what they want, float, sink, move around, stick to each other or not. I was thinking of making a soaking device out of a plastic bottle with the cap drilled in a few places but unfortunatelly plastic isn't great when filled with 90*C water. Plus you have less control of the flow anyway, so I'm sticking to a kettle at the moment.

Regards,
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RE: re

Postby espressomattic » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:26 am

I echo all of your first Post Tom. Often wondered about the cone shape and the 'blonding' in the middle. What I have resorted to is letting the grounds bloom, then pouring, allowing the coffee to fall from the brim a little and repeat until I have used the desired amount of water. I have given up on the whole cone thing as I cannot dtect any tangiable difference.

I think Dom's thoughts on stirring are worth looking into as I cannot help but think the grounds at the bottom of the paper become somewhat over extracted, whereas the grounds near to the top are under extracted.

As I have said elsewhere...Espresso Rocked...Long Live the Chemex. Less variables really for a far superior cup. On the subject of milk, warmed cream goes very well in Drip coffee (The missus loves it).
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RE: re

Postby Gouezeri » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:55 am

That's why I said TC and not PID :wink:
However, seeing as you've finished playing with pumps :wink: how about a trip to Argos, pick up a portable induction hob and throw a PID on that with your TC in the Hario :twisted:

Matt, there are some interesting comments on the cone and extraction in the thread posted above, by people who know far more about this stuff than I. I'm not sure to what extent it is an issue though. In particular, see PeterG's comments, which make a lot of sense to me. What percentage do those grounds in the cone actually represent and do we really need/want to wait for the pour to finish, rather than cutting short in the same way you would an espresso? Hurry up and buy that Mojo Tom! :wink:

As for Espresso rocking and Chemex ruling... two totally different drinks, in my mind, which I enjoy equally, but for very different reasons. I'd rather have a chemex than a FP any day though!
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Re: RE: re

Postby bruceb » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:52 am

Gouezeri wrote:As for Espresso rocking and Chemex ruling... two totally different drinks, in my mind, which I enjoy equally, but for very different reasons.
Oh Dom, Matt certainly decided to do the right thing. He realised that he couldn't stand the heat, so he got out of the kitchen. :twisted:
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RE: Re: RE: re

Postby Gouezeri » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:08 am

It's your fault Bruce! It's all the variables you keep adding!
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Re: RE: Re: RE: re

Postby bruceb » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:19 am

Gouezeri wrote:It's your fault Bruce! It's all the variables you keep adding!
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Postby GMRK » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:50 pm

Using my plastic filter this is what I do:

Rinse paper with boiling/near boiling water, which I do into the cup to warm the cup.

Place emptied cup, filter and coffee onto scales, zero scales and pour enough to wet grounds/bloom.

Pour until filter cone is nearly full mixing coffee with stirring motion of kettle.

Let this pour filter, pour again mixing the coffee from the sides of the filter into the bottom with the kettle motion, until required weight/volume has been poured.

This does take less than 4min for a small cup but maybe pour time is proportional to amount of coffee and volume of water?
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Postby tap » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:25 pm

me usually use the "sock"drip method. similar to hario thin nose kettle though boiling the water separately. then fill the pourkettle. do sometimes take the temp but usually by feeling. 90degreeish. first bloom. 15to20 seconds average. pouring very slowly spiraling movement untill the desired volume is extracted. not letting the water go through the pour more. not even in the end. just remove from over the cup. 2minuteish for onecup.

amount of the watercoffee average 10g for 150ml cupfull

some more experimente to do with the grindsize for different coffee(light roast needs finer it feels like) water temp and with papers. me using rather high quality papers round cone and haven´t found need to rinse. anyway plenty to find out still...
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Postby espressomattic » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:10 pm

I read the Coffeeed Thread and was left more confused....

I treid the stirring and the result was a really over extracted cup and not very pleasent. I also tried you method Dom of using a Milk Jusg to pour the water which worked much better.

IMHO and limited experience, I personally see nothing wrong with James technique overall as it seems to me at least, to produce a balanced cup.

Of course I could be wrong in that what I like is tosh and what I tried this morning was the Nirvana of coffee excellence. If that's the case my taste buds are unrefined and useless 8)
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Postby Gouezeri » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:29 pm

Darn it, was just about to go to bed... now want to get out the Chemex and have a little play with some vista that has been pulling some amazing shots.

Matt did you notice any difference in drip time with the stirring? Also, I wonder whether grinding more coarsely might combat the over-extraction you got?

It really is about time that somebody who actually knows what they are talking about respond to this thread! :wink:
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Postby Tristan » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:32 am

Has anyone tried a watering can sprinkler type system?
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