Vac pot?

French Press, Vac Pot, Drip or any other - air your views and results

Moderators: CakeBoy, GreenBean, Gouezeri, bruceb

Postby zapty » Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:22 pm

It's a daft tabletop model with an extra size B bowl to go with the zize D. He just dropped the price a fiver for me, including delivery.
Thanx for the advice.
Bezzera B3000A, Giotto Premium, several Cona's, several Balance Brewers, Atomic, Milano etc,
Aristarco, Rancilio MD 40, Ditting and Eureka MCI grinders, several antique roasters, a mini500/800N propane/electric Taiwanese roaster, greens all over the place...and some other unmentionables that have not been mentioned......
User avatar
zapty
 
Posts: 1196
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:07 am
Location: Heerlen, Zuid Limburg, The Netherlands

Re: Vac pot?

Postby HV » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:08 am

simonp wrote:I've been drinking a reasonable ammount of caffetiere coffee recently, as I've been working late, so no access to an espresso machine. I quite like coffee this way, but it can be a littele muddy, so I've been thinking about a vac pot. They are a little costly, so wondering if I should or not.
I know the Cona is the best, but I'm wondering if I should start with something cheaper in case I'm not keen on this method. I have seen Hario Technica ones on ebay going cheap, but I'm not sure what they are like.


Ok, since my name was mentioned in the context -

First off, I agree with Phil. Vac pots are popular because
1. the improved filtration leaves less sediment than in a cafetière;
2. extraction is better than in drip brewers, due to improved agitation and more stable temperatures;
3. the whole show of the brewing process is just way cool.


Which vac pot to chose? Here's my take:

* Cona's: very worth the money, very high quality glass, excellent filter - haven't found these to be finicky in any way, just be careful not to touch the drainer when stirring;
* Bodum Santos et. al.: inexpensive and does the job, glass is indeed much thinner, and the filter tends to clog when using the pot on a higher flame (which you shouldn't do anway);
* Hario: somewhere between Bodum and Cona wrt quality - good stuff for on the table, but can't be used on a stove;
* Hellem: as sturdy as the Cona's, but, like the Hario's, a bit of a hassle to clean due to the cloth filter - note: spare parts are near-impossible to find as the factory closed down a few years ago;
* Patrick's (Coffee4you) Royal and Cafetino: excellence in construction, visual appeal, and coffee quality, but that's included in the price tag - buy if you can afford it, lust for it if you can't;
* Sintrax: don't buy unless for collectability, glass is top-notch, but the filter sucks - otoh, you'd buy these for bragging rights only, not for use;
* Miscellaneous 'merican vac pots: usu. decent quality glass, some (Cory) actually have good filters - here too finding spare parts is very, very difficult.

I've left out a few old models that occasionally show up on ebay - again, the unavailability of replacement parts may be an issue.

To sum up: if you want a vac pot for daily use, it's best to go for one still in production. If you want to use it on a stove, the Cona and Santos are the prime suspects. My personal pref is for the Cona, because the glass drainer is probably one of the better filters around. 'Course, you can easily use the Santos with a Cona drainer...

For use on the table, Hario is a third alternative. Note, as said in another thread, Hario is most forecoming, and certainly willing to ship to Europe. The brewers are not overly expensive either - IIRC, most models sell for around 6000 Yen (= 42 EUR = 29 UKP) The Nouveau, and Deco cost only a bit more. Spare parts are available from the mfr.

Want even more choice? Check out this section


Re Kaarina - AdCraft makes a decent stainless steel vac pot with a very good filter, should do the trick aboard a boat & won't break. Oh, who mentioned the Velox? Forget it anyway, looks nice, but it's hard to persuade it to make a decent cup of coffee. Better try a normal moka.


Cheers,

HV
Reneka Techno, Mazzer Mini, Hottop Coffee Roaster Digital
HV
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:14 pm
Location: Utrecht - NL

Postby Gouezeri » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:15 am

HV,
Great guide. Another one worth saving for the resources section imho.
Oh and it was me who mentioned the Velox, but that was to be taken with a hefty dose of sarcasm. I derive an enormous amount of perverse pleasure out of finding questionable coffee gadgets :lol: most people just ignore me when I go off on one of these tangents ;-)
D
This week I are feeling sleepy!
User avatar
Gouezeri
 
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:56 am

Postby zix » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:55 am

Thanks HV! Speaking of vac pots, what is the verdict on the E-Santos nowadays? Better than all of the above? About the same as a Santos glass vac pot? Or should I look the other way the next time I hear an E-Santos calling my name in a kitchenware shop?
‹• Bezzera B3000AL • Strietman ES3 • Chemex • Cona C size • Aeropress • Vev moka • Bialetti Brikka • Espro • Cezve • Bacchi Espresso • Arrarex Caravel •
• HG-1 • Lido 1 & E-T • OE Pharos •
• oven • hot air gun • Behmor •›
User avatar
zix
 
Posts: 1326
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:40 pm
Location: Partille/Göteborg, Sweden

Postby HughF » Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:46 pm

My small (0.75 litre) secondhand eSantos stopped heating a few months ago (the switch still lights up red but no heat) and I can't see where it's failed. My larger eSantos (the version with a timer etc., couldn't get the simpler one) is still fine but has only been used c. 20 times.

I liked the coffee from the larger one using a Rocky grinder at home better than from the smaller one using an Iberital or Zass 156 grinder at work; it could be due to the grinder or water quality - I've tried matching grind fineness between home and work. I mostly prefer either eSantos to cafetiere coffee but I haven't tried a non-electric vac pot.

Availability of either eSantos is dodgy and Bodum UK aren't particularly switched on. I'm looking to replace the smaller eSantos but haven't seen any new ones so far.

Cheers,

Hugh
Grinders : Macap MXK conical for espresso, Mahlkoenig Vario for Chemex, Macap MC6 (spare when our office was closed) for cafetiere, Zassenhaus Knee Mill for cafetiere when working away from home.
La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 espresso machine. HotTop KN8828P roaster. Chemex manual drip for most brewed coffee plus cafetieres and eSantos.
User avatar
HughF
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 10:47 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Postby phil » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:49 pm

Hugh - I don't think the eSantos is still made? Or at least it's not being shipped to the UK?
La Spaziale Spazio 2 group semi-auto

La Spaziale Lusso grinder (espresso),
Macap MC4 shop grinder (brewed coffee)
Three Thor tampers
Two Hottops, first since Feb 2003
No partridge, no pear tree either
Conas, Zassenhaus hand grinder....
User avatar
phil
Founder Member
 
Posts: 2321
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:05 pm
Location: Swindon, UK

Postby HV » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:26 pm

zix wrote:Thanks HV! Speaking of vac pots, what is the verdict on the E-Santos nowadays? Better than all of the above? About the same as a Santos glass vac pot? Or should I look the other way the next time I hear an E-Santos calling my name in a kitchenware shop?


I've very little experience with the eSantos to really judge, but most electric vac pots suffer from two shortcomings.

First, the heating element is usually a bit oversized (in wattage), making the water "downstairs" boils too much. Because of that the "boil" cycle is rather short. In addition, the large amounts of steam going through the coffee mixture "upstairs" results in brewing temperature that are too high. To rephrase all that: more energy = more evaporation = more steam = shorter boil (before the lower bowl boils dry) = higher heat "upstairs".

Secondly, the heating element adds an undesirable large thermal mass. When the coffee mixture eventually returns "downstairs", it is often "burned" (well, singed, maybe) by the still too hot heater.

Note that this is a general statement about vac pots with built-in heating elements. Some will undoubtedly be better than others - it's very well possible to design a vac pot that uses a heating element with the right power output, and with a low thermal mass.
Perhaps owners of the eSantos can comment on these issues, or at least how these show in that brewer.

Lastly, I would think the problems with the eSantos' electronics are already well-documented. The non-timer version might be a better choice.

Cheers,

HV
Reneka Techno, Mazzer Mini, Hottop Coffee Roaster Digital
HV
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:14 pm
Location: Utrecht - NL

Postby zix » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:47 pm

Thanks for this. Yes, more input would be very welcome.
Phil and Hugh, at least Bodum still has it on their website, this should be a good link to follow. There are a couple of clickable E-santos thumbnails to the right of the first image.
‹• Bezzera B3000AL • Strietman ES3 • Chemex • Cona C size • Aeropress • Vev moka • Bialetti Brikka • Espro • Cezve • Bacchi Espresso • Arrarex Caravel •
• HG-1 • Lido 1 & E-T • OE Pharos •
• oven • hot air gun • Behmor •›
User avatar
zix
 
Posts: 1326
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:40 pm
Location: Partille/Göteborg, Sweden

Postby HughF » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:12 pm

Bodum UK mentioned that they were expecting some new eSantos' (I think) but gave no date when I phoned them a few months ago. I don't think it was completely discontinued then. Yes, I would have preferred the non-timer version but new eSantos' are not easy to find.

I turn off the heater as soon as the coffee descends.

Some have shortened the downpipe from the funnel in the eSantos to give a longer brew time :
http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/vacpots/bodumesantos/OregonCoffeelover
Be careful though as the truncation recommended for the small eSantos is different to the recommended shortening for the large eSantos.

Others put a 5mm prop under the side of the vac pot opposite the handle for a longer brew time.

Zix : thanks for the link, I'll ring their London shop tomorrow.

Cheers,

Hugh
Grinders : Macap MXK conical for espresso, Mahlkoenig Vario for Chemex, Macap MC6 (spare when our office was closed) for cafetiere, Zassenhaus Knee Mill for cafetiere when working away from home.
La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 espresso machine. HotTop KN8828P roaster. Chemex manual drip for most brewed coffee plus cafetieres and eSantos.
User avatar
HughF
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 10:47 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Postby Steve » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:46 pm

Its all down to plugs, belive it or not. If bodum UK want some with UK plugs on they need to buy 10,000 from bodum worldwide.

The smaller santos will work on the larger santos bottom hugh if that helps.

In regards to new ones in the UK, I was told 12 months ago more were coming. I agree there not really switched on.

Steve
User avatar
Steve
Founder Member
 
Posts: 3713
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:58 pm
Location: Stafford UK

Postby CakeBoy » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:47 am

Just in case it helps, I live very near to a Bodum outlet store which permanently has 30% (or more) off their entire range plus some end of line stuff. There was a Santos of one sort or another in there two weeks ago, though I took little notice at the time. I am happy check out anything that people might be interested in, be it a Santos or whatever else they stock. The discount makes quite a difference to the prices. The ladies that work there are also very helpful with any enquiries. Shout if I can help. :D
www.CakeBoy.co.uk
International muffin blagger

Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
Aerobie | eSantos | Zassenhaus | Bodum P/Over | Chemex | Hario Woodneck | Timer Filter
User avatar
CakeBoy
 
Posts: 9992
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:43 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, England

Postby Gouezeri » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:11 am

CakeBoy wrote: Shout if I can help. :D

Which in my experience is more help and knowledge than you are likely to get from the Bodum store in Cvt Gdn!
This week I are feeling sleepy!
User avatar
Gouezeri
 
Posts: 4187
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:56 am

Postby CakeBoy » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:03 am

gouezeri wrote:
CakeBoy wrote: Shout if I can help. :D

Which in my experience is more help and knowledge than you are likely to get from the Bodum store in Cvt Gdn!


Actually on reflection, they were more helpful than knowledgeable, so questions probably should be limited to something like "Can you get a ..... in for me please?". A request for a lined shot glass a while back caused nearly as much confusion in Bodum as the reference to a pf did at Starbucks the same day. Where would we be without these behemoths of the coffee world? :?
www.CakeBoy.co.uk
International muffin blagger

Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
Aerobie | eSantos | Zassenhaus | Bodum P/Over | Chemex | Hario Woodneck | Timer Filter
User avatar
CakeBoy
 
Posts: 9992
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:43 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, England

Postby HughF » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:20 am

Steve wrote:Snip
The smaller santos will work on the larger santos bottom hugh if that helps.

In regards to new ones in the UK, I was told 12 months ago more were coming. I agree there not really switched on.

Steve

Thanks, I'll try that to sort out which part of the smaller eSantos is preventing it heating up - I miss being able to use it at work. I can disassemble the jug but haven't pried apart the base yet. If you get stock of any eSantos (preferably non-timer ones), please let me know.

Cheers,

Hugh
Grinders : Macap MXK conical for espresso, Mahlkoenig Vario for Chemex, Macap MC6 (spare when our office was closed) for cafetiere, Zassenhaus Knee Mill for cafetiere when working away from home.
La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 espresso machine. HotTop KN8828P roaster. Chemex manual drip for most brewed coffee plus cafetieres and eSantos.
User avatar
HughF
 
Posts: 1113
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 10:47 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Postby lukas » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:30 pm

I just tried my new Bodum Santos on small flame with Harrar Longberry. I must say that the first time I drank the Harrar, I was absolutly astounded - it made it to my top 3 right away. This time, I appearently got the Harrar from the same batch as 4 weeks ago (or so, read: very old coffee), and was dissappointed when trying it in the Presspot. Now, the same old beans in the Santos, I get deliberatly more taste out of it - I even can somewhere "hear" the whispers of this astounding taste-experience I had when trying the beans fresh and reaaaaaally look forward to try this beans fresh in the Vac-Pot!

W00t, everytime I read and write in TMC I think what a cool place this is. Sorry for Hijacking the thread :)
Last edited by lukas on Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lukas

This week I like my coffee luke-warm.
--
Newest kit: Ghibli R-15
User avatar
lukas
 
Posts: 2798
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:41 pm
Location: Porta Westfalica, Germany

PreviousNext

Return to Other Brewing Methods

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron