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Post subject: Newbie signing in!
 Posted: Sep 25, 2004 - 08:39 AM
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Joined: Sep 25, 2004
Posts: 75
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: Offline
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Hi all, the Danish newbie has arrived on TMC! 
My name is Mads, I am 31 and live in Copenhagen.
I am just getting started in this whole coffething - which was kicked off when I started grinding my own beans. Now, I recently realised that people are roasting ther own beans, which sounds fantastic in my ears. I have decided to get the I-Roast, once it lands in Europe, simply cant wait to taste what a difference that must make!
Anyway, to my first question:
I am trawling the internet to find out what machine to buy, and it seems like the Elektra Semi-Automatic is a good buy (LOVE its looks), or alternatively a H/X E61 variant. So what I am really after is an overview of what E61 single group machines are available..and their pros/cons.
Secondly, as a coffe/milk lover - what are the opinions on going through all these pains to make fantastic coffe - and then blurring its taste with milk? Is it like waisting good whiskey by drinking it with Coca-cola?  or considered "ok" to do?
Thanks all, Mads |
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Raf
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 25, 2004 - 11:08 AM
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Site Management
Joined: Aug 23, 2003
Posts: 1700
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Status: Offline
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Hi newbie 
Welcome aboard. It's hard to decide for you which machine to buy if we don't know a few things: what's your budget? what's your favourite coffee (espresso, cappucino,...): if you drink a lot of milk based drinks, you'd better go for H/X or dual boiler, so you can steam at the same time as pulling a shot. I use a Vibiemme Domobar (an E61 machine), and I'm very happy with it, but I don't know if they're available in Denmark.
And, er, personally I think drinking milk in coffee is a crime against humanity (just so you know where I stand  ) |
_________________
This week I am eagerly anticipating the first god shots from my La Spaziale machine....
La Spaziale S1, Vibiemme Domobar (retd), Mazzer Mini Electronic, Behmor 1600 230V
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tisri
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 25, 2004 - 11:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 03, 2004
Posts: 535
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
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Hi Mads, welcome aboard! I've been here six weeks so far and it seems a friendly bunch of people, except the ones that tease me about my passion for dark roasts 
I can't help you with your espresso machine I'm afraid - I use a bean-to-cup machine that does absolutely everything for you (well, not quite everything, you still have to fill the bean hopper and empty the dregs).
As for milk it's a matter of taste. I always used to insist on real coffee served without milk but then found that some coffees taste nicer with it. Ultimately it comes down to what you enjoy drinking. Much as the discussions about how best to roast any given bean, there's usually a consensus that a certain bean is best roasted to a certain level but if you prefer it darker or lighter then do what works for you. |
_________________
I wish I were what I was when I wished I were what I am.
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stevenzaat
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 25, 2004 - 11:12 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Posts: 241
Location: Bloemendaal (Netherlands)
Status: Offline
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Mads welcome at this terrific community. I am also a newbie on this site and already got a lot of information from the members, which improved my daily espresso a lot.
If you are waiting for the I-roast. They expect the first shipments to Europe in a couple of weeks. (see: www.ongebrand.nl and read the English version). Ongebrand will supply them I think also outside the Netherlands.
For an E16 single group I would tend to favour the Vibiemme Domobar (with E61-group), although I personnaly do not know the Elektra machines. The Vibiemme Domobaris for sales forapproximately EURO 750 via the internet (see www.koffiewarenhuis.nl or www.esw.nl). Another very good machine is the Isomac Zafiro (EUR) 970), it also contains the E61-group) but it is more expensive. As I see that you are not a cappucino fan it makes no sense to upgrade to a more expensive one (Isomac Tea or Vibiemme Domobar Super). It costs you an additonal EURO 200 and only advantage I know is that you can make coffee and use the steam at the same time. But keep in mind that I am not the most experienced expert in the world.
On your second remark I agree that the best experience is to drink the extract of freshed roasted beans and that nothing can add anything to this experience, but tastes differ. Some people drink the milk in it in the morning to prevent their stomach, but I prefer to drink drip in the morning.
Welcome again and I hope the information will help you.
Best regards,
Steven |
_________________
La Marzocco GS/3 with a Mini Mazzer Electronic (version B) for my espresso/cappuccino
Solis Maestro grinder for my french press vacuum brewed coffee, Hottop roaster, Cona D coffee brewer and a Bodum French Press.
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vinter
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 25, 2004 - 12:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 25, 2004
Posts: 75
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: Offline
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Thanks guys!
Neku: Fair enough on the milk issue I am the complete opposite, as I like any type of coffee with milk involved. Latte, capuchino, younameit. But who knows, maybe getting a proper setup/machine will make me appreciate a shot without milk involved...
Tisri: Good to know about the beans - look forward to exploring that further!
Steven: Thanks, I already pre-ordered one from ongebrand - cant wait! I really like the look of the Vibiemme, but as written above I really DO like cappuchinos, so I guess I would need the Domobar Super, then?
I havent been able to find the Super anywhere online - do you know how much it costs? Will try writing the two sites you mention
Thanks again for the warm welcome,
Mads |
_________________
Best regards, Mads
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
LM GS3 (former Elektra Semi Automatica), Casadio Instantaneo (Former Mazzer Mini E, former Macap M4 Doserless), Gene Cafe (former I-Roast 1)
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stevenzaat
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 25, 2004 - 12:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Posts: 241
Location: Bloemendaal (Netherlands)
Status: Offline
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Mads,
The Super Domo is for sale at www.koffiewarenhuis.nl, but it cost EURO 1358, so it is kind of an upgrade. I don't know how difficult it is to switch between the two function in normal Domobar. Maybe Meku can advise.
If the normal Domo is not usefull for capu-freaks I would choose for the Isomac Tea (EURO 1195). The Isomac-Tea is special made for cappucino-freaks, although the description of the Isomac Zafiro (EURO 968) says that you can easily switch between the steam-function and the water supply to produce the espresso. It is very populair under the serious Coffeegeek members.
For the Isomacs you can find more info on Coffeegeek. Coffeegeek has written a full review of the Zafiro (http://www.coffeegeek.com/proreviews/detailed/isomaczaffiro) and you can find a lot of consumers reviews on the Coffeegeek:
* Isomac Tea (http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/commercial/isomac_tea)
* Isomac Zafiro (http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/isomac_zaffiro)
I hope this will help and succes with your decision. Please let us know what you finally have choosen, because I also want to make an upgrade in the near future.
Best regards,
Steven |
_________________
La Marzocco GS/3 with a Mini Mazzer Electronic (version B) for my espresso/cappuccino
Solis Maestro grinder for my french press vacuum brewed coffee, Hottop roaster, Cona D coffee brewer and a Bodum French Press.
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MKSwing
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Post subject: Re: Newbie signing in!
Posted: Sep 25, 2004 - 02:03 PM
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Joined: May 03, 2004
Posts: 473
Location: Louargat
Status: Offline
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madsv wrote:
My name is Mads, I am 31 and live in Copenhagen.
Stephane, 29, Paris, nice to meet you and Welcome !
Quote:
I am just getting started in this whole coffething - which was kicked off when I started grinding my own beans. Now, I recently realised that people are roasting ther own beans, which sounds fantastic in my ears. I have decided to get the I-Roast, once it lands in Europe, simply cant wait to taste what a difference that must make!
Just sounds like me a few months ago. You can't imagine the difference between a good fresh roasted coffee and one you drink usually. The first thing you should do is buy the same coffee you drink usually. I bought Yerga and compared it with the one my brother serves in his restaurant... It was like comparing day and night, incredible.
And don't worry, roasting is very easy and very fun to do, except for the smoke.
Quote:
Anyway, to my first question:
I am trawling the internet to find out what machine to buy, and it seems like the Elektra Semi-Automatic is a good buy (LOVE its looks), or alternatively a H/X E61 variant. So what I am really after is an overview of what E61 single group machines are available..and their pros/cons.
Are you sure you want an E-61 machine ? They look very cool, no question about it, but the are quite expensive, imho. There are other H/X machines and even non H/X machines that will make you great coffee without spending so much. I recently bought a Nuova Simonelli Oscar, it's a H/X one with the same group and portafilter you see on professional machines and it just rocks ! My brother bought a Cimbali Domus, which is not a H/X machine, is about the same price but more compact. This machine brews great coffee too and is even easier to get used to.
Another thing frustrating with E61 machines is their inox body, coffee is a big stains producer, plastic machines are easier to clean.
About coffee and as a big espresso afficionado, I don't see the point of drowning coffee into something else like milk but I must say I suck at making things like cappuccino with only steam power (man, I regret the La Pavoni toy !). The most impressive thing with fresh coffee and roasting is the tastes you'll find in it depending on what bean you use, which roasting degree, how you brew it and how much time you let it rest.
Prepare for a devouring hobby ! |
_________________
Stephane Cataldi
Nuova Simonelli Oscar, Bodum Press, Bodum Santos, Super Jolly Mazzer grinder, Zassenhaus manual grinder, crank hottop
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joey
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 25, 2004 - 07:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 12, 2003
Posts: 1048
Location: Vienna
Status: Offline
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Aloha!
Joey here.
Cappuccinos? Deffinitely HX!!! You don't want to wait for the steam to be hot enough before you can froth your milk, while your espresso get's cold....
Which one?
Whatever you can afford - but do you know why you want an E61?
Because you read that a lot of people think it's the "one and only" grouphead?
I am poking you in the ribs here, I know, I just have a different theory about PF sizes - and the E61 PF is too flat for my taste - but let's better not discuss that now - as long as the coffee is perfectly roasted, ground, tamped and fresh you can make very good coffee *even with a E61* (I see myself dissapear in a pile of TMC members jumping on me like football players on the field -lol-) har, har....
A dual boiler? Only if you make many coffees per day, otherwise the boiler has a lot of "dead" stale water inside for a longer time, just imagine the same amount of water heated over and over again, just for steaming 2x a day.....(painting a bit black and white now, I know, just want to make a picture here )
Back to your questions - milk? Good. If your coffee can handle it.....
Just today I tasted a Guatemala s.h.b. - usualy a single origin to blend with other beans because it's acid and bitter and has a very distingt taste - ugly as an espresso. But suddenly combined with milk and a bit sugar it tasted like a caramel machiato from SBs - on the other hand I once tasted another coffee (and I forgot what it was) which tasted fruity as espresso but totally awkward with milk - like if you drink orange juice after brushing your teeth :-#
Anyway - drink your coffee however you like it - let Espresso addicts grumble.
And have fun here, you found a wonderful group - never heard one bad word here, everybody is very helpful....
Welcome Mads!
Johanna |
_________________
"Latte" is french for "you've paid too much for your coffee"
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mnemonix
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 25, 2004 - 11:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 14, 2003
Posts: 173
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
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Hi,
no ones mentioned the Expobar Pulser yet, probably the cheapest heat exchanger + E61 style group head machine available. I've been using one recently and would say it makes good espresso, though not necessarily better than a Gaggia Classic / Rancilio Sylvia level machine (more consistent maybe) but IS way more convenient for milk drinks, and I admit to liking my cappucinos too.
As they say on alt.coffee... you DO have a good grinder in mind too don't you ?
Chris. |
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Raf
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2004 - 09:12 AM
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Site Management
Joined: Aug 23, 2003
Posts: 1700
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Status: Offline
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| Ha! Chris, you're right! We almost forgot the grinder! |
_________________
This week I am eagerly anticipating the first god shots from my La Spaziale machine....
La Spaziale S1, Vibiemme Domobar (retd), Mazzer Mini Electronic, Behmor 1600 230V
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vinter
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2004 - 09:48 AM
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Joined: Sep 25, 2004
Posts: 75
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: Offline
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ahhh - grinders. We recieved a Dualit grinder as a present, will that suffice? Heres a link:
http://www.dualit.com/content.asp?page=/catalogue/productRange.asp?categoryCode=4
It seems to be able to grind fairly well - what do you think?
Mads |
_________________
Best regards, Mads
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
LM GS3 (former Elektra Semi Automatica), Casadio Instantaneo (Former Mazzer Mini E, former Macap M4 Doserless), Gene Cafe (former I-Roast 1)
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maurice
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2004 - 10:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 03, 2004
Posts: 134
Location: London
Status: Offline
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| At its factory settings the Dualit might just get you something close to an espresso grind at the very finest setting, but will not allow you to make fine adjustments. The next setting up will probably be completely unusable for espresso. Luckily you can reset the grind settings, so that the whole range is moved towards the fine end. Instructions are at http://www.kwilson.fsnet.co.uk/grinder_tweaks.htm. Follow the instructions for the Solis 166 which is the same machine. The trick is to mark the original settings on the ring with a good marker pen before you start so if you adjust the wrong way at first you can tell which way to go to reverse the problem. |
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mnemonix
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2004 - 10:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 14, 2003
Posts: 173
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
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I'd say the Dualit is a minimium for espresso generally and certainly not really matched with the quality of espresso machines you are considering.
The grinder is very important as it must be able to produce a consistant, fine and even grind for an espresso machine to work properly and avoid either under or over extraction from too large or small particles. Adjustability and method of dosing are also features to consider.
If you were getting a cheap Gaggia espresso machine as a start (and they are very good machines for that), the Dualit would be a good starting grinder, and you'd upgrade it before the Gaggia if you had any sense, but anyone considering HX and E61 groupheads likely already knows the importance of the grinder and has a Mazzer Mini or similar.
Chris. |
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zix
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 27, 2004 - 11:58 AM
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Joined: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 1275
Location: Partille/Göteborg, Sweden
Status: Offline
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mnemonix wrote:
anyone considering HX and E61 groupheads likely already knows the importance of the grinder and has a Mazzer Mini or similar.
Chris.
I see what you mean, but disagree a little bit there. I know this is an elitist hobby to many of those not lost to the taste of good coffee. But it need not be so.
Just as well as the E-61 is not absolutely essential to make good espresso (but it looks good though! I love my VBM and I think you will enjoy one too, if you decide to buy an E-61...), the grinder doesn´t necessarily have to be a Mazzer (but it sure is built well!). This here below is merely my personal views, and those of you with a Mazzer doser or doserless probably won´t agree with me, but here goes.
Argument 1 against:
The Mazzer Mini w. doser is undoubtedly good. 349 Euro @ esw.nl is quite a nice price too, but where I live it would be hard finding it for less than 550 ... and in this case I simply think there are other alternatives who are more attractive for me - like finding a small used pro grinder for example.
Argument 2 against:
The Mazzer doser model is made for pro use, which you can see and feel if you can hold one in real life. That is good, but you will likely use more coffee than necessary with it for home use because: 1. It grinds very fast and 2. It grinds into a doser.
Many people have discussed how to go about this, weighing or measuring your coffee before putting it in the grinder, taking the doser off or modifying it for less coffee spill, so now there is another model out: the doserless Mazzer. For 500 Euro...
So I would still think I´d rather go for a used pro grinder and modify it myself. It really shouldn´t be too hard to do - it isn´t exactly rocket science this. Then I´d get the best of both worlds: good precision in the grinder, little or no coffee spill.
Personally, so far I have managed well with the Minimoka M-205, which is way better than you might think looking at it. It has problems, of course, spraying coffee is one of them. I have modded mine with a plastic funnel instead of the original trunk outlet so I have less coffee spill. Also, the building precision of the Mazzer (and many other small pro grinders) is better. But, in the end, cetero censeo that I should have bought a second hand small pro grinder instead. Perhaps a used Mazzer Mini...
Hope I made my point clear... rubbing it in.
/Mats |
_________________
‹• Bezzera B3000AL • Cona C size • Aeropress • Vev moka • Bialetti Brikka • Cezve • Handpresso Wild •
• Anfim KS Self • broken Cimbali Max •
• oven • hot air gun •›
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stevenzaat
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 29, 2004 - 10:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Posts: 241
Location: Bloemendaal (Netherlands)
Status: Offline
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Mats,
Good news. Bartolomeo a Dutch Espresso supplier has a secondhand Super Domobar (if you are still interested) at stock (http://www.bartolomeo.nl, look at occassions) . Here is their emailadress: INFO@BARTOLOMEO.NL. I looked at the TPG tarrif list and if the machine is between 20 -30 kilogram, it will cost you EURO 45 for the shipping. I bought my Innova grinder at their store and they are really reliable and the owner has excellent technical skills. If you are stll interested I think this will be an opportunity.
For the grinder I will not buy the Dualite. It is the same as the Maestro grinder, which I own for my drip-coffee. It is not suitable for a 'real' espresso machine. I bought it in first instance for my espresso, but the water spurt through the machine and you espresso will be ready within 5 seconds!
I have a Innova (EURO 220 at Bartolomeo) which works very well for my espresso machine, but I don't know how it works for a E61-group. Maybe somebody can advise ?
Another opportunity is the Rancilio Rocky which is for sale for EURO 308 at www.koffiewarenhuis.nl, but for that price I would definitely prefer the king under the grinders, Mazzer (EURO 340 at www.esw.nl).
Coffeegeek made a a comprehensively comparison between the Innova grinder, The Rancilio Rocky and The Maestro (your Dualit) : http://www.coffeegeek.com/proreviews/detailed/innovagrinder/comparisons
I hope this information will help you. |
_________________
La Marzocco GS/3 with a Mini Mazzer Electronic (version B) for my espresso/cappuccino
Solis Maestro grinder for my french press vacuum brewed coffee, Hottop roaster, Cona D coffee brewer and a Bodum French Press.
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