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CakeBoy
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Post subject:
 Posted: Apr 25, 2007 - 07:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 18, 2005
Posts: 8705
Location: Oxfordshire, England
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I can taste the difference in coffee stored for a while if it has previously been opened and then resealed. There also seems to be less abundance in the crema in those circumstances too. That said, it seems to be less obvious to me in beans that have only been sealed once and stored. I think bean type and roast profiles are variables that make a difference to the end result too.
Although for me there is nothing to beat freshly roasted beans, I have been surprised in the past by some roasts that have been stored for a little while. The variances of alchemy is my theory.
Bruce about hits it on the head for me. Most home enthusiasts will not be using beans more than a few days old and will probably not bother storing them for any length of time, but everyone should just do what makes them comfortable  |
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Steve
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 25, 2007 - 08:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 22, 2003
Posts: 3353
Location: Stafford UK
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I'm going to tell you Scott I've spent a lot of time around speciality coffee people and I've spoken to a lot of speciality coffee buyers, both wholesale and home users, and they all agree that coffee ages incredibly quickly. Longer than six weeks they are stale, and the difference in the cup is marked. I can also tell you that’s a fact. In fact I'll go as far as to say that older than a month and it stale.
Not directed at anyone and certainly not you, but the only people I've ever heard say different are people selling that stale coffee, or the old school roasters who don’t understand that coffee can taste of anything apart from bitter and roast.
It may not be directed at anyone but what you question is something that my very life is built on, and I don’t just think fresh coffee is better I know it. And how do I know, I cup and taste coffee every day of my life, I also have to taste other peoples coffee most days, just to understand what’s out there, and also comparisons for new wholesale customers. And I’ve yet to find anyone that’s picked there stale offerings over something that’s fresh, and that’s on a blind table every time, many times.
So debates good, difference of opinions good, but when you throw one out there like that, I’m sorry I’m going to bite away  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 26, 2007 - 09:51 AM
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Joined: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 4103
Location: Breizh
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Ok lads, put the bottles down...
Cakey you grab that Scott Fella, I'll grab the other one 
I reckon I agree with Mark here, once a bag of coffee is opened, in my experience it stales quickly. Will most people at home notice? No probably not, but then they are probably not used to drinking really fresh coffee. Which is what makes TMC different/special; we must do a count sometime of the number of home roasters.
I bought some beans from a well known reputable london roaster last week... the bag states that it must be drunk within 3 weeks, and the roast date was a month ago. Now I've had this blend on quite a few occasions and know what it should taste like fresh... this stuff was undrinkable, I had to give up trying to use it in the espresso machine and fish out the aeropress instead. I should probably try and pass a message through to the roaster that one of their resellers is selling stale beans. I suppose the good thing is that people are starting to include roast dates, and hopefully, even if slowly, people will learn to taste the difference between beans with use by date in days rather than years! |
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This week, I are sad to no longer be square.
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lukas
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 26, 2007 - 02:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 25, 2005
Posts: 2638
Location: Bielefeld, Germany
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Gouezeri wrote:
Ok lads, put the bottles down...
Cakey you grab that Scott Fella, I'll grab the other one
I reckon I agree with Mark here, once a bag of coffee is opened, in my experience it stales quickly.
I think nobody argues about that! My point was that coffee can be kept quite fresh for a while in a closed one-way-valve bag w/o much air in it. |
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Lukas
This week I'm mostly overcaffeinated from 60% Robust doubles (and still very happy that Bruce is back and Jessica and I got ourselves a new home!).
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Newest kit: '74 La San Marco unidentified 1-group. 60cm wide 
Old (90ish) Mazzer Major
Kindly on loan from Bruce: his mighty Cimbali Cadet!
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scottwhite
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 27, 2007 - 08:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 03, 2005
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Location: Berkshire
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There is no doubt that if used in the first couple of weeks the coffee tastes better than it does after that period.
But I also find (and this includes stuff I have had from you Steve) that the beans taste best on and shortly after day 7.
ok you may not agree with me that coffee when sealed correctly is fine for months afterwards and I think this is down to my first sentence above and so we will have to beg to differ on that one, but surely you will agree that the taste of the coffee fresh from roasting changes over the first 7 days.
Given that, I feel comments like "you must consume within 7 days" mean that certain people are missing out on what could IMO be the best time to drink it.
As cakey says I also agree that it makes a difference depending on the beans profile and also with Dom that once opened yes definately things downhill rather quickly, there is no arguement on that, we all know that the oils evaporate at room temperature. |
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scottwhite
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 27, 2007 - 08:16 AM
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Joined: Apr 03, 2005
Posts: 649
Location: Berkshire
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lukas wrote:
Gouezeri wrote:
Ok lads, put the bottles down...
Cakey you grab that Scott Fella, I'll grab the other one
I reckon I agree with Mark here, once a bag of coffee is opened, in my experience it stales quickly.
I think nobody argues about that! My point was that coffee can be kept quite fresh for a while in a closed one-way-valve bag w/o much air in it.
soz Lukas just noticed your post, yes agree strongly. |
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monkey66
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 27, 2007 - 11:12 AM
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Location: London
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| I also find that sometimes beans tast great if you open them at the 6-7 day point (damn...I gotta stop agreeing with Scott) but i find they deterorate very rapidly and can be almost undrinkable within a day or two. |
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Steve
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 27, 2007 - 02:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Spot on monkey some beans do require so time to calm down. I think where me and Scot disagree is when it comes to in a bag for six months unopened are as good as freshly roasted.
Me and Scot are big boys and often have a difference of opinion, and that’s good as it opens discussion and proves that I'm right after all  After all even Scots allowed to be wrong (only j/k Scott don’t beat me up, I bleed easily). |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 27, 2007 - 02:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 4103
Location: Breizh
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Changing the discussion slightly, I think part of the problem for me is that there are just too many factors involved with trying to keep beans fresh, to the extent that it seems pointless when most of us here have easy access to fresh beans whenever we want. Furthermore, if I know exactly when the beans were roasted, then it is easy to make the decision as to when to use them at their peak, whether it be only 24hrs or 7 days later.
However, when all is said and done, there is always bound to be a degree of personal taste involved here. |
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This week, I are sad to no longer be square.
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scottwhite
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 27, 2007 - 07:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 03, 2005
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Location: Berkshire
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Steve wrote:
Spot on monkey some beans do require so time to calm down. I think where me and Scot disagree is when it comes to in a bag for six months unopened are as good as freshly roasted.
Me and Scot are big boys and often have a difference of opinion, and that’s good as it opens discussion and proves that I'm right after all After all even Scots allowed to be wrong (only j/k Scott don’t beat me up, I bleed easily).
yes it is very healthy to have that difference and keep it as just a discussion, for me that's what this place is all about.
plus Steve gets to learn new things from me, which is great.
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_________________
Iberital L'anna Hand fill x 2
Iberital MC2 with Doser
Macap EPS Tamper
Macap MXA x 2
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Shake and Vac
Large box of spanners
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CakeBoy
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 27, 2007 - 08:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 18, 2005
Posts: 8705
Location: Oxfordshire, England
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| Okay it's a pregnant pause before the punchline .... I know that now, but idiot boy here has been sat staring at the space above wondering when the photo was going to load! |
_________________
www.CakeBoy.co.uk
This week, I are mostly touched by kindness
Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
Aerobie | eSantos | Zassenhaus | Bodum Pour Over | Chemex
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 27, 2007 - 10:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 03, 2005
Posts: 2842
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CakeBoy wrote:
Okay it's a pregnant pause before the punchline .... I know that now, but idiot boy here has been sat staring at the space above wondering when the photo was going to load!
No surprises there then Spongemonster! 
Having been deprived of Fresh Roast for some time now, at least in the home anyway, I have and can detect even more so now when beans are on the turn. Take for exapmle I tried some Yirg a couple of weeks back along side an espresso blend from Laroma. The blend was about three days old and I was told the yirg was just turning. Whiklst the Yirg was great, it had lost that initial punch of upfront cirus that you would expect that characterises the cup. The blend on the other hand was bright, clear and full bodied. It just became very clear which was the freshest.
Maybe this highlights in a way what Scott is saying. After several days the charateristics change and sometimes for better, sometimes not.
I have also had espressos where the beans are clearly old even if they have just been taken from a sealed bag before me and it is so noticable. It literally does taste stale, old etc. Thankfully this was in the uk not here.
Just to muddy the waters at the risk of being shot down....
I think it reflects the attitude/lack of knowledge by the general consumer. They can buy a coffee that is six months old and to be frank, think it is fine because that is all they have ever been offered. To them, fresh coffee is made in front of them and roast date etc have little if any, bearing on their thought process.
I hate to harp on about the southern hemisphere, but the public here generally demand a better product and they get it. Oh I am sure that crap is out there, but the majority get fresh roasted, fresh brewed coffee. It all boils down to what you personally know and are used to. Of course all in my Humble opinion.
Personally, from experience, fresh is best and anything over a few weeks old is simply unacceptable to drink, but then I have learnt theat this is best. |
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lukas
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 28, 2007 - 02:03 AM
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Joined: Jul 25, 2005
Posts: 2638
Location: Bielefeld, Germany
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Okay, as I say I change camps on this regularily, so here it is. Just had opened a sealed bag that was from the same blend I talked about earlier, but a month older. Crap. A month younger. Delicions. A month older. Crap. Could have been a bad sealing, but could have also been that three months was too much but two months was just fine.
I guess I need to get more experienced to build a full blown opinion on this |
_________________
Lukas
This week I'm mostly overcaffeinated from 60% Robust doubles (and still very happy that Bruce is back and Jessica and I got ourselves a new home!).
--
Newest kit: '74 La San Marco unidentified 1-group. 60cm wide
Old (90ish) Mazzer Major
Kindly on loan from Bruce: his mighty Cimbali Cadet!
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bruceb
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 28, 2007 - 09:43 AM
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Joined: Apr 04, 2004
Posts: 4210
Location: Northern Hesse, Germany
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CakeBoy wrote:
Okay it's a pregnant pause before the punchline .... I know that now, but idiot boy here has been sat staring at the space above wondering when the photo was going to load!
Being a pregnant pause it obviously will take 9 months.  |
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This week I are nutating in my dreams. 
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GreenBean
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 28, 2007 - 12:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 03, 2007
Posts: 1037
Location: Chester UK
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