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bruceb
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Post subject:
 Posted: Apr 25, 2007 - 08:25 AM
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Joined: Apr 04, 2004
Posts: 4248
Location: Northern Hesse, Germany
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scottwhite wrote:
ivdp wrote:
Although it has been said before: roasted beans stay fresh for about 1 week.
You can't expect Illy to deliver fresh beans to their customers. Logistics just prevent this.
So lower your hopes to find "fresh" Illy.
roasted beans stay fresh in a one way valve bag for 6 months before they go downhill,if stored in a cool dry place, that's a fact.
Absolutely! I have some lima beans in the pantry and they've been there in a one way valve bag for 6 months and they're as good as new! That's a fact. |
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This week I are nutating in my dreams. 
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Sunnyfield
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 25, 2007 - 02:38 PM
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Founder Member
Joined: Aug 23, 2003
Posts: 539
Location: Hong Kong, China
Status: Offline
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Quote:
roasted beans stay fresh in a one way valve bag for 6 months before they go downhill,if stored in a cool dry place, that's a fact.
I am not going to respond to that... I am not going to respond to that... 
I am not going to r-r-r-r-r... R-IDICULOUS!  |
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La Marzocco GS/3, Elektra Nino, Feima 800N Taiwanese gas-powered 500g drum roaster, and a desperate wife 
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scottwhite
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 25, 2007 - 05:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 03, 2005
Posts: 649
Location: Berkshire
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Steve wrote:
Not sure if your trying to wind me up or not Scott, so I'm going to sit in the corner and nod 
Not at all, comment is not directed at anyone, just as far as I am concerned it is a fact, the only place I have ever heard different from is on here.
That includes roasters, vendors, customers all the way along the line everyone says the same thing.
I understand where you are coming from but when I hear people say it has to be ground and drunk near immediately, well, I think they are wrong. |
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GreenBean
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 25, 2007 - 06:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 03, 2007
Posts: 1054
Location: Chester UK
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GreenBean
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 25, 2007 - 06:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 03, 2007
Posts: 1054
Location: Chester UK
Status: Offline
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bruceb wrote:
Absolutely! I have some lima beans in the pantry and they've been there in a one way valve bag for 6 months and they're as good as new! That's a fact.
Yes Bruce but have you tried making espresso from them?  |
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bruceb
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 25, 2007 - 06:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 04, 2004
Posts: 4248
Location: Northern Hesse, Germany
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GreenBean wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Absolutely! I have some lima beans in the pantry and they've been there in a one way valve bag for 6 months and they're as good as new! That's a fact.
Yes Bruce but have you tried making espresso from them?
Wellllll, no, but they're great in stews.
In fact, this is something we don't need to argue about at all, at least not us home roasters or those of us who have really fresh beans available. Just put them in a valve bag, store them for 2 weeks and try them. If you like the results it's fine. If you find, as many of us have, that they have lost most of their character or have a somehwat stale and/or rancid flavour to them then that's fine, too. Whatever the result, you know what you have to do in regard to storing your coffee. |
_________________
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
This week I are nutating in my dreams.
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GreenBean
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 25, 2007 - 06:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 03, 2007
Posts: 1054
Location: Chester UK
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bruceb wrote:
In fact, this is something we don't need to argue about at all, at least not us home roasters or those of us who have really fresh beans available. Just put them in a valve bag, store them for 2 weeks and try them. If you like the results it's fine. If you find, as many of us have, that they have lost most of their character or have a somehwat stale and/or rancid flavour to them then that's fine, too. Whatever the result, you know what you have to do in regard to storing your coffee.
Absolutely Bruce. If I get my planning wrong and have beans older than about seven days I save them for seasoning the group heads after cleaning with Cafiza. They seem to be as good for this as fresh beans.  |
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CakeBoy
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 25, 2007 - 07:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 18, 2005
Posts: 8776
Location: Oxfordshire, England
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I can taste the difference in coffee stored for a while if it has previously been opened and then resealed. There also seems to be less abundance in the crema in those circumstances too. That said, it seems to be less obvious to me in beans that have only been sealed once and stored. I think bean type and roast profiles are variables that make a difference to the end result too.
Although for me there is nothing to beat freshly roasted beans, I have been surprised in the past by some roasts that have been stored for a little while. The variances of alchemy is my theory.
Bruce about hits it on the head for me. Most home enthusiasts will not be using beans more than a few days old and will probably not bother storing them for any length of time, but everyone should just do what makes them comfortable |
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Steve
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 25, 2007 - 08:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 22, 2003
Posts: 3357
Location: Stafford UK
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I'm going to tell you Scott I've spent a lot of time around speciality coffee people and I've spoken to a lot of speciality coffee buyers, both wholesale and home users, and they all agree that coffee ages incredibly quickly. Longer than six weeks they are stale, and the difference in the cup is marked. I can also tell you that’s a fact. In fact I'll go as far as to say that older than a month and it stale.
Not directed at anyone and certainly not you, but the only people I've ever heard say different are people selling that stale coffee, or the old school roasters who don’t understand that coffee can taste of anything apart from bitter and roast.
It may not be directed at anyone but what you question is something that my very life is built on, and I don’t just think fresh coffee is better I know it. And how do I know, I cup and taste coffee every day of my life, I also have to taste other peoples coffee most days, just to understand what’s out there, and also comparisons for new wholesale customers. And I’ve yet to find anyone that’s picked there stale offerings over something that’s fresh, and that’s on a blind table every time, many times.
So debates good, difference of opinions good, but when you throw one out there like that, I’m sorry I’m going to bite away |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 26, 2007 - 09:51 AM
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Joined: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 4123
Location: Breizh
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Ok lads, put the bottles down...
Cakey you grab that Scott Fella, I'll grab the other one 
I reckon I agree with Mark here, once a bag of coffee is opened, in my experience it stales quickly. Will most people at home notice? No probably not, but then they are probably not used to drinking really fresh coffee. Which is what makes TMC different/special; we must do a count sometime of the number of home roasters.
I bought some beans from a well known reputable london roaster last week... the bag states that it must be drunk within 3 weeks, and the roast date was a month ago. Now I've had this blend on quite a few occasions and know what it should taste like fresh... this stuff was undrinkable, I had to give up trying to use it in the espresso machine and fish out the aeropress instead. I should probably try and pass a message through to the roaster that one of their resellers is selling stale beans. I suppose the good thing is that people are starting to include roast dates, and hopefully, even if slowly, people will learn to taste the difference between beans with use by date in days rather than years! |
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This week, I are gone.
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lukas
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 26, 2007 - 02:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 25, 2005
Posts: 2638
Location: Bielefeld, Germany
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Gouezeri wrote:
Ok lads, put the bottles down...
Cakey you grab that Scott Fella, I'll grab the other one
I reckon I agree with Mark here, once a bag of coffee is opened, in my experience it stales quickly.
I think nobody argues about that! My point was that coffee can be kept quite fresh for a while in a closed one-way-valve bag w/o much air in it. |
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Lukas
This week I'm mostly overcaffeinated from 60% Robust doubles (and still very happy that Bruce is back and Jessica and I got ourselves a new home!).
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scottwhite
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 27, 2007 - 08:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 03, 2005
Posts: 649
Location: Berkshire
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There is no doubt that if used in the first couple of weeks the coffee tastes better than it does after that period.
But I also find (and this includes stuff I have had from you Steve) that the beans taste best on and shortly after day 7.
ok you may not agree with me that coffee when sealed correctly is fine for months afterwards and I think this is down to my first sentence above and so we will have to beg to differ on that one, but surely you will agree that the taste of the coffee fresh from roasting changes over the first 7 days.
Given that, I feel comments like "you must consume within 7 days" mean that certain people are missing out on what could IMO be the best time to drink it.
As cakey says I also agree that it makes a difference depending on the beans profile and also with Dom that once opened yes definately things downhill rather quickly, there is no arguement on that, we all know that the oils evaporate at room temperature. |
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scottwhite
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 27, 2007 - 08:16 AM
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Joined: Apr 03, 2005
Posts: 649
Location: Berkshire
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lukas wrote:
Gouezeri wrote:
Ok lads, put the bottles down...
Cakey you grab that Scott Fella, I'll grab the other one
I reckon I agree with Mark here, once a bag of coffee is opened, in my experience it stales quickly.
I think nobody argues about that! My point was that coffee can be kept quite fresh for a while in a closed one-way-valve bag w/o much air in it.
soz Lukas just noticed your post, yes agree strongly. |
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monkey66
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 27, 2007 - 11:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 07, 2006
Posts: 653
Location: London
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| I also find that sometimes beans tast great if you open them at the 6-7 day point (damn...I gotta stop agreeing with Scott) but i find they deterorate very rapidly and can be almost undrinkable within a day or two. |
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Steve
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 27, 2007 - 02:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 22, 2003
Posts: 3357
Location: Stafford UK
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Spot on monkey some beans do require so time to calm down. I think where me and Scot disagree is when it comes to in a bag for six months unopened are as good as freshly roasted.
Me and Scot are big boys and often have a difference of opinion, and that’s good as it opens discussion and proves that I'm right after all After all even Scots allowed to be wrong (only j/k Scott don’t beat me up, I bleed easily). |
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