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scook94Offline
Post subject: Censorship  PostPosted: Dec 01, 2006 - 11:58 PM



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I have recently tried to supply a couple of links to a new member looking for info on grinders. However one vendors name appears to have been censored. Can I please get an explanation why this vendor is no longer allowed to be mentioned on this forum but others are?

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AadjeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 12:03 AM



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I've got a question about that too, what is the precise policy about advertisement on TMC? When is linking to a vendor advertisement and when is it not?

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AadjeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 12:17 AM



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Obvioulsy it's an issue, I just wanna know what I am to post and what to PM. And if everybody sticks to that i'm happy Smile

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Last edited by Aadje on Dec 02, 2006 - 12:21 AM; edited 1 time in total
 
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scook94Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 12:21 AM



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Well well, isn't that strange. A few minutes ago I wasn't able to type bellabarista without it being turned into "*****" Now it's ok! I'm still interested to know why this vendor's name who don't post here was censored but others who do wasn't? Phil?

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Bertie_DoeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 12:32 AM



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scook94Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 12:34 AM



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Rob, that's not the point. Until a few minutes ago the name bellabarista (whether it was part of a URL, valid ot not) was censored. I'm looking for an explanation as to why? Phil was signed in at the time I posted this thread so I assume he is aware of why it was implemented in the first place and why it wasn't even mentioned. I assume also it was he who removed it.

Am I wrong at being outraged at this selective censorship?

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RobCOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 12:36 AM



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Aadje wrote:
Obvioulsy it's an issue, I just wanna know what I am to post and what to PM. And if everybody sticks to that i'm happy Smile


I agree with the post bit Aadje, but I had never thought about the PM part. The idea that PM's could be moderated I find a bit george orwell.

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philOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 12:46 AM
Site Management


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If you're telling someone something useful that they will benefit from knowing, mention whomever you like so long as you don't personally gain from it.

On the other hand, when a certain vendor comes from nowhere and is then mentioned so frequently that they become virtually a household name, and the person that is mentioning them most often has clear business connections to that vendor (irrespective of their implausible denials), then that is out of order.

Look in the FAQ. You'll see two areas that are pertinent.

One part says you can say what you darned well like so long as you don't get me (the site owner) sued.

The other part says "don't advertise". IMO this over-rules the first bit.

So to re-iterate: if you're telling someone something useful that they've asked about and that you don't personally benefit from, go right ahead and tell people.

If you're just trying to "big" a vendor up, I will ask you just this once, and politely, to cease and desist.

I have nothing against the company you're trying to mention. I don't really know anything positive about them either.

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Three Thor tampers
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No partridge, no pear tree either
Conas, Zassenhaus hand grinder....
 
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philOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 01:00 AM
Site Management


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PMs are treated by the software in much the same ways as forum posts, and they pass through a lot of the same components.

PMs are not moderated. Don't be silly. There is no mechanism to do that. Site management has no visibility of the contents of PMs. There is however a forum word censor, and that applies to any user input via the forum modules on this site. So if you get hit in a PM by something designed to block in posts what appeared to be an abuse of forum rules, well I'm sorry but that's tough.

Footnote: I believe that some parties (not necessarily any of the current posters) would like to suggest that there is a conspiracy within TMC to prefer certain vendors over others.

Policy statement Such an unethical practice is not acceptable. I would not tolerate it. Believe otherwise if you choose.

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Da Boss

La Spaziale Spazio 2 group semi-auto

La Spaziale Lusso grinder (espresso),
Macap MC4 shop grinder (brewed coffee)
Three Thor tampers
Two Hottops, first since Feb 2003
No partridge, no pear tree either
Conas, Zassenhaus hand grinder....


Last edited by phil on Dec 02, 2006 - 01:07 AM; edited 1 time in total
 
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scook94Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 01:00 AM



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Phil, the new member indicated he was in the market for a grinder under 300 quid. I immediately thought of the Iberital MC2 and the Macap MC4. I tried to link to both of the sites I know of that sell those grinders. I was able to link to the MC2 vendor ( I have bought a bottomless PF from them, and recommended them to a friend who subsequently bought said grinder) I tried to link to the only vendor of the MC4 that I know of. I bought my espresso machine from them.

I have not benefitted financially from either. I am purely a satisfied customer, as I am from the like of Hasbean (especially Hasbean)and AnotherCoffee.I still do not understand why the typing of that vendors name merits a blanket ban on this forum and your post does nothing to explain that. I have looked back in the forums posts and all references to this vendor were censored until recently.

If you do not wish to post the reason in an open forum then feel free to PM me.

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philOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 01:24 AM
Site Management


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I think I've already explained fully. There is nothing I'm not prepared to say in public, either.

I'd had enough of what I saw as an attempt to use TMC to promote a particular vendor in contravention of forum rules. The temporary imposition of a word censor was designed to block that for the time being. When I did it I hadn't considered that it would block PM content too.

The word censor was imposed on Tuesday evening. It's dynamic. Look back up this thread. The stored contents of posts are are not changed in any way. The forum mechanism to do this stuff translates the posting text at display time - so any previous mention prior to Tuesday would also be blocked during the period that the word ban was in effect. Now I've switched it off again the posting you did above to demonstrate the effects no longer does so. All previous posts now appear as they did originally.

That's all there is to it.

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Da Boss

La Spaziale Spazio 2 group semi-auto

La Spaziale Lusso grinder (espresso),
Macap MC4 shop grinder (brewed coffee)
Three Thor tampers
Two Hottops, first since Feb 2003
No partridge, no pear tree either
Conas, Zassenhaus hand grinder....
 
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scook94Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 01:41 AM



Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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phil wrote:
I think I've already explained fully.

Really? Until your latest post I disagree

phil wrote:

I'd had enough of what I saw as an attempt to use TMC to promote a particular vendor.

Particular vendors are promoted on here ALL the time, I'd be interested to see which particular post it is you are refering to.

phil wrote:

Footnote: I believe that some parties (not necessarily any of the current posters) would like to suggest that there is a conspiracy within TMC to prefer certain vendors over others.


Ever hear the phrase "What you do speaks so loudly I can't hear what you say?"

Anyway I'm off to bed, hopefully I'll have calmed down in the morning. If I'm barred from this site, so be it...

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BeanieOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 04:30 AM



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I don't understand why this is still on the table Sad but hope to soon return to just enjoying coffee while we talk about all things coffee
scook94 wrote:

Really? Until your latest post I disagree

Really? Seems clear to me.

scook94 wrote:

Particular vendors are promoted on here ALL the time, I'd be interested to see which particular post it is you are refering to.


Remember...
phil wrote:

...when a certain vendor comes from nowhere and is then mentioned so frequently that they become virtually a household name, and the person that is mentioning them most often has clear business connections to that vendor (irrespective of their implausible denials), then that is out of order.


scook94 wrote:

Ever hear the phrase "What you do speaks so loudly I can't hear what you say?"
Yes. Now, apply this quote to the preceding one.

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RobCOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 04:44 AM



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Talking about coffee, or not as the case may be, I have spent the last four hours trying to work out why snozcumber put a picture of a turd in the middle of this thread. I've squinted at it, stood on my head, I even dug out a pair of those 3d specs with a red lense and green lense from way to far back. Nothing helps, it must be one of those subliminal messages......

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espressomattic
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 02, 2006 - 10:54 AM



Joined: Dec 03, 2005
Posts: 2941

RobC wrote:
Talking about coffee, or not as the case may be, I have spent the last four hours trying to work out why snozcumber put a picture of a turd in the middle of this thread. I've squinted at it, stood on my head, I even dug out a pair of those 3d specs with a red lense and green lense from way to far back. Nothing helps, it must be one of those subliminal messages......


Rob have you considered that being you are the only one who has seen it as a Turd, then the message was for you???? Razz Cool

I feel I want to comment on some of the above, but you know what, I really can't be bothered as it has nothing to do with why I visit this forum...ie...Talk Coffee and have a laugh.
 
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