Too Much Coffee
Espresso - Mahlkoenig Vario
daveyb - Mar 07, 2009 - 10:26 AM
Post subject: Mahlkoenig Vario
Are there any bods lucky enough to have their hands on one of these yet?
syscrusher - Mar 07, 2009 - 10:30 AM
Post subject: RE: Mahlkoenig Vario
Yep.
daveyb - Mar 07, 2009 - 10:45 AM
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Like to tell me about it then? Or am I blinded by the excellence of my own?
Sum it up in a one liner...........
Best £300+ I have spent since I went to see Dave Gilmour!
Beanie - Mar 07, 2009 - 10:51 AM
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Ooooh do tell then... BOTH of you 
syscrusher - Mar 07, 2009 - 11:04 AM
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Sum it up in one line...
Teething problems.
Beanie - Mar 07, 2009 - 11:25 AM
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Teaser!
daveyb - Mar 07, 2009 - 11:33 AM
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Is yours a current stock or pre production model? I do not seem to have any problems yet idemtified that learning to use the machine and its ins and outd wont cure. I use a naked pf and the clamp system does not favour that, but it works well if I resort to a plainf pf....so I just use the bin provided. I have not had clumping issues although it does seem sensitive to bean, humidity etc as far as changing grind settings goes.
Tristan - Mar 07, 2009 - 11:53 AM
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I've got one... with a couple of problems, but i'm trying to sort them now. I still think it's a great grinder, just perhaps not as good as everyone had bigged it up to be... and to be honest, it was unlikely to be that good at the price point.
Testing mine on the aeropress and pot today.
kingseven - Mar 07, 2009 - 12:08 PM
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I like a lot about it, I would put one in my kitchen if I drank coffee at home as I don't think anything else with the same footprint comes close. That said I don't (or wouldn't) drink espresso at home and my only gripe so far has been that it seems more calibrated for espresso than for coarser grinds. I am hoping for a way to recalibrate it coarser that won't invalidate my warranty. (Because on occasion I might be guilty of taking things apart and messing with them and stuff....)
daveyb - Mar 07, 2009 - 12:14 PM
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Thats interesting King. Of the 10 settings on the right cam, I am on 7 and on the left, 2. If I go finer than that mt Fracino starts to choke up. I do not drink anything other than espresso based but I would have thought that if I can find my espresso grind setting so far from the limit then it may have wqorked in reverse th same way!
Tristan - Mar 07, 2009 - 01:23 PM
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Yeh mine is not fine enough, but coarseness is A-OK.
kingseven - Mar 07, 2009 - 01:27 PM
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swap?
charmon - Mar 07, 2009 - 01:40 PM
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Is no site free of people flaunting their varios?
Tristan - Mar 07, 2009 - 01:45 PM
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Well I sort of fixed mine. Though i'm not sure it's a permanent solution as it could result in the grinder catching on fire..!
I removed the bottom burr and used it to stencil out a a slither of paper. Then cut the paper out with a craft knife and sandwiched it between the burr and the burr carrier. It's made all the difference (about 7 settings on the micro selector), but I am lightly worried about it catching on fire and resulting in the horrific destruction of my entire house.
Unfortunately no other non-flamable material of that thickness is readily available. Plus it shouldn't really be necessary to do it anyway.
Tristan - Mar 07, 2009 - 01:48 PM
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Oh and if anyone from Baratza/Mahlkonig is reading this... I didn't really do the above and could I please have a replacement?
charmon - Mar 07, 2009 - 02:00 PM
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Before Sys got his vario we were talking briefly about what he expected from it. The hype was all there but we were both a little sceptical. In that price bracket (and even in the next ones up and down) there is always at least one basic thing missing from a home grinder that stops it from being great. I think Tristans clever mod illustrates how simple it is to fix these problems without jumping up a couple of price brackets in doing so. Some home grinders are great but have glaring problems with them that could be easily fixed. Sometimes I think these companies build a machine and then ask Baristas (home and pro!) about them afterwards, when they've already blown their research budget. Perhaps its a new thread but maybe we at TMC could vote on all the tiny little features that would make a great home grinder? (a good start would be a trap door on the hopper, very annoying)
syscrusher - Mar 07, 2009 - 03:10 PM
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You know that episode of The Simpsons where Homer gets free reign to design a car? Someone needs to do that with grinders.
Of course when I say someone, I mean me. Now to find my long lost half brother Paddy Mazzer...
charmon - Mar 07, 2009 - 03:13 PM
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I missed the end of that episode but I'm sure it will work out great!
May I also add to the list a portafilter holder that holds portafilters.
Tristan - Mar 07, 2009 - 03:41 PM
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Yeh, i've got a blog post coming up soon about the Vario and I penned a mild rant on grinder design as part of it.
That said, I do think that the Vario ticks a few boxes that were previously not ticked by any other grinder out there. The macro and mini adjustments are brilliant. It is very compact and is very good for the price.
daveyb - Mar 07, 2009 - 05:02 PM
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I sold my 6 month old K30 to buy mine and for my simple needs, it works. Yes, those with a design background or commercial background will easiy find fault with it I am sure. But, how many of us have kit which simply does not match our ability or needs?
The reason I do not have a La Marzocco is not because it is expensive, but becaue I have no need for such a high end bit of kit in my kitchen producing on average 4 shots a day!
charmon - Mar 07, 2009 - 05:13 PM
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daveyb wrote:
I sold my 6 month old K30 to buy mine and for my simple needs, it works. Yes, those with a design background or commercial background will easiy find fault with it I am sure. But, how many of us have kit which simply does not match our ability or needs?
The reason I do not have a La Marzocco is not because it is expensive, but becaue I have no need for such a high end bit of kit in my kitchen producing on average 4 shots a day!
I agree entirely that we cant all go buying GS3s and Roburs for our kitchens but the point I'm making is that it costs little or nothing to fix a lot of these problems. Most are simple problems easily fixed at design stage
Tristan - Mar 07, 2009 - 05:16 PM
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The PF holder is unforgivable... it doesn't hold the portafilter!!!
daveyb - Mar 07, 2009 - 05:38 PM
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I am sure that in time they will replace the existitng pull out arrangement with another. I can use my pf in it actually (not the aked one) as long as I remember to hook it unde the clip.
Interestingly enough, when I was emailing Mahlkoenig 4 weeks ago they did not have a release date and in their own admission, they said that simply the machines were not ready to market. I would suspect therefore that the first batches out will not have the mods of the later ones but someone has to be a pioneer.
As a side issue tp this, and someting that now seems obvious but was not initially. I use a Fracino Heavenly which has no temperature control on it. It stands for long periods and I found that I was getting terrible overheating of the water. No matter how much of a cooling shot I pulled the first espresso extracted was pure crap. By chance, I found my naked pf and strapped that on. Problem immediately solved. I can only guess, that all the additional metal in the standard pf was holding the temperature too high, hence the no cooling effect by running more. The naked allows me to pull off 15 mls or so and no more problems. Perhaps a more technical perosn can tell me if this is nonsense or not!
zix - Mar 08, 2009 - 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Sometimes I think these companies build a machine and then ask Baristas (home and pro!) about them afterwards, when they've already blown their research budget. Perhaps its a new thread but maybe we at TMC could vote on all the tiny little features that would make a great home grinder? (a good start would be a trap door on the hopper, very annoying)
Perhaps it is just too long ago, forgotten and all that, but I am sure most of the great suggestions for a home grinder can be found in some of the old threads here. If I recall correctly, I was one of those pleading for a straight and long grind path.
Something like that la Marzocco 'S' grinder (or the Versalab M3), which also, to be honest, is quite a simple way to construct a grinder, just a little bit different:
* offset the grind chamber and outlet from the motor, using a chain or a belt and a pulley to connect the drive to the grinder axis. The hopper on top as usual, but the outlet under the burrs instead of on the side.
This way, we can get a straight vertical grind path, which is good for coffee spill and retainment of grinds (or rather, bad for those, but good for us)
* Use conical or hybrid conical/flat burrs for a longer grind path.
The verdict so far on both hybrids like Versalab M3, Cimbali Max and all the big conical grinders seems to be that the chance of a great shot is better on one of these, the "good shot margin" increases. Flat burrs would be an alternative for those wanting faster, higher RPM grinders.
Tristan - Mar 09, 2009 - 08:13 AM
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Posted my review up last night...
http://www.tristanstephenson.com/wordpress/2009/03/08/baratzamahlkonig-vario-grinder/
dsc - Mar 09, 2009 - 01:36 PM
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Hi guys,
Quote:
Sometimes I think these companies build a machine and then ask Baristas (home and pro!) about them afterwards, when they've already blown their research budget. Perhaps its a new thread but maybe we at TMC could vote on all the tiny little features that would make a great home grinder? (a good start would be a trap door on the hopper, very annoying)
Well I would love to design a grinder and if you give me the tools and the time I will probably put something together quite quickly:) With the help of Jon I can add whatever electronic bits you need and probably fit within a budget of £500. So who wants to pick me? No one? Oh come on!!
Seriously though it would be nice to work for a grinder/espresso machine designing company.
Can someone please take photos of the insides of the grinder? I would love to see how the setting mechanism works as I was pretty worried it would fail quite quickly (or de-calibrate).
So far I've heard that the PF holder and the drop pattern are annoying as you can't really dispense coffee easily. If you add to this the fact that some grinders can't grind fine enough it's quite disappointing to be honest. I understand that a $400 grinder won't be superb, but I'd like to be sure that if I buy one it will grind at least fine enough for espresso.
I guess this new Vario is a bit like Maestro on steroids with a timer. The only problem is the Maestro only costs 99$ and the Vario costs 429$. Quite a lot of money for a timer and fancy setting mechanisms.
Regards,
dsc.
daveyb - Mar 09, 2009 - 05:30 PM
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Having read tristans comments, then there must be an issue with balancing the grind settings in the factory as mine easily clogs up my espresso machine. I have not had any issues with static though (it is a retail unit and not a pre-production).
I think whatever its shortcomings, it is a step closer for home consumers to have somehting half decent without resorting enormous second hand commercial monsters in the kitchen!
syscrusher - Mar 10, 2009 - 10:52 AM
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I put my own take on the Vario up on my blog.
In some ways I think it may be a victim of its own hype, and maybe that clouded my opinions on it.
dsc - Mar 10, 2009 - 01:35 PM
Post subject: re
Hi guys,
well I guess it was pretty obvious that if you try to make a grinder that's good for everything you will end up with either a great thing if the design is good, or something not so great, worse than a separate grinder for espresso/drip/FP. I think in this case it's the latter.
From what I've heard and read there are quite a lot of problems with this new grinder:
- some models can't grind fine enough and some can't grind coarse enough, and this is because the settings are limited from two sides which is crap comparing to normal grinders with threaded upper burr carriers on which you can make the grind as fine or as coarse as you like. It looks like the designers shoot themselves in the foot by choosing the slider setting mechanism. There's a simple rule of engineering/design, if it's simple and it works stick to it (threaded upper burr carrier) and it looks like the Vario designers went the opposite way. Being limited by a grinder which costs 330£ is not a nice thing.
- the PF holder doesn't work
- going back to previous settings doesn't guarantee the exact same settings
- I have no idea how it happens (I'm blaming the slider mechanism inside the grinder and the way it changes the burr setting) but you can get very coarse grinds from time to time even when grinding on the finest setting. Most people thought it's a preproduction model problem or that it was a one time kind of thing, but it turns out it's not.
- clumping (I'm not surprised since it's a doserless grinder) and drop pattern (sometimes the grinder throws to one side and you have to do WDT/Stockfleth to redistribute the coffee)
- the grinder is expensive, you can get the Macap M4 for less which is a metal case model, allows for infinite grind changes and won't break after 5 years of use and abuse.
- last but not least inconsistency between models which is quite bad. You don't know if the grinder you just purchased is going to be an FP-model (grinding coarse enough for FP but not fine enough for espresso) or an espresso-model (grinding fine enough for espresso but not coarse enough for FP).
Can I say Baratza blew their chance to design a good grinder? sure there was a lot of hype regarding this grinder and the expectations were high, but for now it looks like it can grind and that's all.
Regards,
dsc.
Tristan - Mar 10, 2009 - 10:09 PM
Post subject: RE: re
Hmm.. A bit unfair I think.
With anything that generates lots of hype critics are always quick to list failures because there are so many great things to try and disprove.
I've lived with mine for a few days now and I absolutely love it. The settings are repeatable, dose is great (apart from a little static). The grind bin is very clean, tidy and it does a great job for aeropress and filter.
My main gripe is that the PF holder isn't right, it's a silly mistake, but Baratza can easily sort that out by drilling a few more holes and sending me a new one!
johara - Mar 10, 2009 - 10:17 PM
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I have a spare, current model (not pre- production) Vario.
If anyone wants it at List price please PM me.
I use the other one for espresso in my kitchen. Mine seems to grind fine enough to choke an S1 and a Synesso. Mine is the one that Paul from Coffee Hit has reviewed on his site. It's a pretty good review if people want to see some more pictures of it. One good feature is the low amount of coffee that is left behind between doses.
I haven't tried the spare as it is new in the box.
Joe
dsc - Mar 10, 2009 - 10:36 PM
Post subject: re
Hi guys,
ok I agree I was a bit harsh, but I am worried about a few things:
- are the settings going to be repeatable after a year or two of constant use?
- what if you get a model that doesn't grind fine enough and what if the calibration problem is more often (affects more than 30% of the grinders on the market)
- what if it grinds fine enough but sticks an odd coarse bit here and there for no apparent reason?
In my opinion more then 300GBP for a grinder is quite a lot and with the current limitations and problems (and this is a beginning) you're better of with a Mazzer Mini or a used SJ (sure bigger, but not too much).
Regards,
dsc.
Tristan - Mar 10, 2009 - 11:02 PM
Post subject: RE: re
Some good points...
I wouldn't expect to be grinding on the same settings a year down the line, but then I wouldn't be expecting to grind on the same settings a week down the line. The micro selector adjusts by 4um, an impossibly small difference between notches. All good baristas should be checking every time they pull shots that the grind is calibrated towards the temperature, coffee, humidity, burr age and dose.
On a side note, lets not forget that 2 years down the line the average Vario's ceramic burrs will be just getting started, wheras a ss burr set will be coming to the end of its life.
The finest setting not being fine enough is an issue. Jerry commented on my blog an easy fix to move the calibration window however, but i've not had a chance to look in to it yet.
As far as the random coarse bit goes... I really don't know. Sounds silly, but could they be stray grounds finding their way in from previously dialed in coarser setting?! (I'm not getting that problem)
Finally - I have a Mazzer SJ... in my opinion, the Vario is better for my needs for loads of reasons, amongst them: Size, footprint, consistency, usability, cleanliness, versatility, noise, accuracy, repeatability, efficiency and price.
Steve - Mar 10, 2009 - 11:05 PM
Post subject: RE: re
How can you have an opinion of a grinder without even using it DSC?
And the setting the same 10 mins later in my kitchen and I'm pleased
I think in its price point its a kick ass grinder a nice mid point better than a rocky not a k30
It knocks a Macap and a Mini e into a copped hat for me.
Tristan - Mar 10, 2009 - 11:14 PM
Post subject: RE: re
You've not used it?! How did I miss that!?
Oh and a Mazzer SJ is a giant compared to a Vario... I still can't get over how small it is.
Gouezeri - Mar 10, 2009 - 11:59 PM
Post subject: RE: re
Maybe the Rocky and Mini E are really starting to show their age, it'll be interesting to see whether it stirs up the market at all. Plus both of the above grinders are overpriced (in my opinion).
Not really sure whether if I was paying over 300 quid for a grinder, I would consider size an issue... at least not for a pure espresso grinder. I know that size in the kitchen is an issue for lots of us (me included), but the grinder is the one piece of gear where I'll put up with having something big, if it provides the right kind of results. This is not to say that the vario doesn't.
Where it may really have something to offer, is if it can be used for espresso and, say, FP; ie. 2 grinders in one. Then it really would make an issue of size.
By the way, the blog post that Joe is referring to above, is here
Tristan - Mar 11, 2009 - 07:44 AM
Post subject: RE: re
I agree, size is not one of my main concerns, but I think worth mentioning that the difference between the Vario and a SJ is big. Also I think tha if a grinder is good AND small then it;s always a bonus!
dsc - Mar 11, 2009 - 09:20 AM
Post subject: re
Hi guys,
true I haven't used one, I based my concerns/questions on the opinions of people who have used it and simply pointed out the problems those people had. Let's remember it was 5 people (Nicholas and Bob on HB and James, Tristan and syschrusher on TMC) using the production model (Nicholas from HB was also using the pre-production model) and to be honest there was quite a lot of problems with some of them. Now I agree this might have been simply unlucky, but if it wasn't I don't know if this grinder is going to be popular.
How 'stiff' are the sliders? Is it possible to accidentally knock them with your hand and screw up the grind completely? What about de-calibration by constantly going from espresso settings to FP settings say 3-4 times a day?
Nicholas from HB who had problems with the coarser bits appearing in fine grind said that the grinder outlet was completely clean, so the only place where those bigger bits could have appeared from is the burr chamber. This of course raises another question, how is that possible?
Sure if you haven't got enough space and need to grind for both FB/drip and espresso it might work well for you (assuming of course it can grind fine/coarse enough). Still I think that an ordinary Mazzer is better, you get infinite grinder setting changes, you don't have to worry about calibration and if you stick stickers on top of the adjustment collar you can also quite easily move between coarse/fine.
Oh and btw the guys over on HB did test the Vario against the Mini E and there was no clear winner. Of course it lost against the Robur but I don't think there was any doubt in that (kind of pointless to clash the Vario and the Robur).
Let's wait for more reviews and see, maybe I'm wrong, but in my opinion it's too expensive for what it offers.
Regards,
dsc.
CakeBoy - Mar 11, 2009 - 11:38 AM
Post subject: RE: re
Horses for courses I guess, some will stick with the Mazzer and others will go with the Vario. I shall reserve my opinion until it's possible to see them in operation side by side, though I expect in the end, rather like the Mazzer v Macap arguements of a few years back, both will end up respected for what they offer. I have to say there has been a lot of excitement about the Vario and it certainly does come with lots of innovations that should really help the barista at home
JohnYossarian - Mar 11, 2009 - 01:25 PM
Post subject:
Tristan wrote:
Well I sort of fixed mine. Though i'm not sure it's a permanent solution as it could result in the grinder catching on fire..!
I removed the bottom burr and used it to stencil out a a slither of paper. Then cut the paper out with a craft knife and sandwiched it between the burr and the burr carrier. It's made all the difference (about 7 settings on the micro selector), but I am lightly worried about it catching on fire and resulting in the horrific destruction of my entire house.
Unfortunately no other non-flamable material of that thickness is readily available. Plus it shouldn't really be necessary to do it anyway.
Have you considered a thin sheet of PTFE? You can find some of these pretty thin (in fact in quite a range of thicknesses).
I have recently found some 0.2 mm to replace the membrane of my Parker pressurestat.
syscrusher - Mar 13, 2009 - 09:12 AM
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I've seen the grind profiles of the Vario and of the Mahlkönig Tanzania (aka Ditting K 805) side by side.
There is no comparison.
The 805 has a very tall, narrow, pronounced peak and a fines peak maybe 5% the height of the coarse peak (it barely makes a bump)
The Vario on the other hand has a main peak about half as tall and twice as wide as the 805 peak, and it's fines peak was also more pronounced. This I guess would be a more classical "espresso" grinder profile.
This is not a filter grinder, unless you consider nearly every other espresso grinder ever made as great for filter grinding.
kingseven - Mar 13, 2009 - 09:48 AM
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Just to chip in - I used this grinder for a cupping the other day and the amount of fines in the cup was a bit of an issue. I do really like this grinder, very glad I bought it, but expectations should be kept in check.
Would love to see those grind profiles btw!
syscrusher - Mar 13, 2009 - 09:56 AM
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kingseven wrote:
but expectations should be kept in check.
That's the problem, it's not a bad grinder per se, it's just some of the claims being made, are outlandish, and dare I say irresponsible.
I "saw" the profiles, don't possess or have permission to post them publicly... yet.
charmon - Mar 13, 2009 - 10:20 AM
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i think the concept is great and clearly they intended it for a variety of uses but it just doesnt deliver. if it was marketed as purely an espresso grinder the reviews would be a lot more positive. It underestimated its target market and I suspect the sales will reflect that.
bruceb - Mar 13, 2009 - 11:40 AM
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If it cost 30% more than the little Starbucks/Dualit/Solis grinder I'm sure it would be a hit.
Gouezeri - Mar 13, 2009 - 03:32 PM
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I dunno Bruce, that's a bit harsh, given that you can pick up a Starbucks/Solis for around 50 quid in the UK (from memory), whereas the Rocky is about 200. If expectations and hype are kept in check, then I reckon the vario probably punches well over its weight. Has anybody seen any reviews/comparisons against a Mini E?
Tinseljim - Mar 13, 2009 - 03:37 PM
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Can I ask a quick question:
Will the Vario be better for FP than the SJ? I believe the SJ will win in the espresso department no?
syscrusher - Mar 13, 2009 - 03:44 PM
Post subject:
Tinseljim wrote:
Will the Vario be better for FP than the SJ?
In terms of adjusting back and forth between espresso and FP - the Vario is more convenient.
In terms of grind quality - no, I don't think so.
kingseven - Mar 13, 2009 - 04:39 PM
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I would be interested to test it. However I don't own a SJ and don't really like them either. I could put it against an Anfim Super Caimano Titanium?
syscrusher - Mar 13, 2009 - 05:42 PM
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It's no harm to test it, but I don't know what conclusions you would draw from it.
charmon - Mar 13, 2009 - 07:17 PM
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The Compak K3 is in the same sort of price range.Anyone any experience with that? Never used it myself
Goat - Mar 13, 2009 - 07:24 PM
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kingseven wrote:
I would be interested to test it. However I don't own a SJ and don't really like them either. I could put it against an Anfim Super Caimano Titanium?
In the interests of the wider community I can lend you a Super Jolly for a week or so. As you may, or may not, remember I'm about 10 minutes walk from you, on the other side of the Tube station.
Personally I'd be interested to see how they stack up against each other (my kitchen is tiny!).
If you're interested let me know.
Tinseljim - Mar 14, 2009 - 01:10 AM
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"I would be interested to test it. However I don't own a SJ and don't really like them either. I could put it against an Anfim Super Caimano Titanium?"
Thank you that would be helpful especially WRT French Press. I guess what I'm really asking is should I keep my Super Jolly or change to a Vario seeing that I tend to grind for non-espresso purposes for the most part these days?
dsc - Mar 14, 2009 - 09:54 AM
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Hi guys,
the HB fellas clashed the Vario against the Mini E and the results weren't so bad for the Vario with no clear winner. I think if you get a Vario that works properly it's going to be better than the Mini E simply because it has a timer and is cheaper.
James: why don't you like the SJ?
Regards,
dsc.
Tristan - Mar 14, 2009 - 11:17 AM
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UPDATE.
Just got back from a few days away and the static problem on my Vario has got a lot worse. Coffee is literally going everywhere on espresso grind, to the point where it's not really practical to make a cup and certainly not accurate for dosing.
If it stays like this, it'll be going back.
Any ideas???
dsc - Mar 14, 2009 - 11:31 AM
Post subject: re
Hi Tristan
are you still using the same coffee? I switched recently to the Los Luchadores from SQM and I'm getting coffee everywhere (no seriously everywhere) and I think the main reason for this is dryness of the coffee and it's freshness. Of course it gets worse as the coffee fills the basket and gets closer to the end of the funnel. In case of the Vario it's a bit more complicated because the basket sits very close to the outlet.
Personally I don't think there's anything you can do, it's just the way it works and it's pretty much the same on my modified Major which has a metal case and everything (including the grind on the outlet of the burr chamber) is grounder. I will be however experimenting with a negative ion generator next week to see if I can somehow tame this.
Regards,
dsc.
bruceb - Mar 14, 2009 - 11:54 AM
Post subject: RE: re
A small strip of polonium metal near the outlet should take care of the problem. I don't have any idea what health authorities might think of the idea, but I wouldn't bother asking them, either.
GreenBean - Mar 14, 2009 - 03:38 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: re
bruceb wrote:
A small strip of polonium metal near the outlet should take care of the problem. I don't have any idea what health authorities might think of the idea, but I wouldn't bother asking them, either.
Polonium 
POLONIUM Never mind the health authorities I expect the intelligence services of the world will be paying close attention to this thread now. Hell polonium is almost as poisonous as.... ughhh as... err.... as instant coffee! 
dsc - Mar 14, 2009 - 03:43 PM
Post subject: re
Hi guys,
a little radiation never hurt anyone... oh no wait that's not right:)
Regards,
dsc.
Tristan - Mar 14, 2009 - 04:29 PM
Post subject: RE: re
Isn't that plutonium?!
dsc, yes... I have changed coffee, but reverted back (because I thought the same thing) and it's no better. I'll put a video up later, but I reckon i'm wasting 2-3g every time I dose.
bruceb - Mar 14, 2009 - 06:10 PM
Post subject: RE: re
Polonium has been used in antistatic dust brushes for more than half a century. I was not suggesting eating it or putting it in ones coffee.
Tristan - Mar 14, 2009 - 06:30 PM
Post subject: RE: re
Another update.
Took the advice of Jerry, who commented on my blog review. Removed the paper insert from under the bottom burr and adjusted the settings using the hex screw (behind the rubber grommet) next to the grinds chute.
Basically you just loosen the screw and you can slide it back and forward then tighten again. The further back you slide it the finer the grind becomes (all the way back I was grinding espresso on the 'filter' setting) and the further forward the coarser (all the way forward I was grinding huge shards of press coffee on the 'filter' setting). So that is the grind setting problem well and truly solved, all Vario owners can set the grind window depending on how they want to use it, and yes, I have found a middle ground that is suitable for very fine espresso and press at the other end of the scale.
Moreover, the static issue seems to be solved. Maybe it was removing the paper, or just having the burrs out. Anyway, i'm happy once again.
dsc - Mar 14, 2009 - 06:57 PM
Post subject: RE: re
Hi Tristan,
yeah I can loose around a gram or so due to static, so I'm not surprised if it's worse on the Vario (the basket is closer to the output). I'm surprised it's the same with the old coffee, maybe it's the humidity?
Just to let you know (if you haven't seen it already), one guy from HB has a Vario which changes the settings of the sliders on it's own:D
Regards,
dsc.
EDIT: Bruce is it available in solid state, like a block or something similar? I've read that it's highly radioactive and quite dangerous. Poisonous if you eat it, but touching it doesn't do anything.
bruceb - Mar 14, 2009 - 08:51 PM
Post subject: RE: re
OK, I am not sure the polonium is a good idea, one will need to do some research on it. If I had a problem with grounds flying around (which I don't because I love my doser grinders) I would buy a "Staticmaster" dust brush from a record shop (are there still record shops?) and carefully remove the front grate and pull out the polonium strip. I used to fool around with them when I was a kid and I've made it to an age that indicates that doing so can't be fatal, but it may leave one confused and a bit strange.
Neo - Mar 15, 2009 - 07:51 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: re
bruceb wrote:
I used to fool around with them when I was a kid and I've made it to an age that indicates that doing so can't be fatal, but it may leave one confused and a bit strange.
That might have explained something 
Ok. Wasn't there a Russian spy in the UK died of polonium poisoning, or was it another stuff?
charmon - Mar 15, 2009 - 04:00 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: re
I have a question. Tristans findings seem to solve the problem,bearing in mind that i haven't tried it myself but trust his judgement,but why does mahlkonig build this feature into the grinder then hide it?
Tristan - Mar 15, 2009 - 05:28 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: re
I know what you mean, don't think there is any mention of it in the instructions.
Good though for people who maybe only want the grinder for brewed coffee, you can ramp up the grind size and adjust according to the brewing method. Or people who only want espresso, moka and turkish(?!)
Tinseljim - Mar 19, 2009 - 11:21 PM
Post subject: Vario 2.0
Apparently according to Mark Prince's Twitter feed, there is already a new version of the Vario:
"Baratza brought back from Asia one next-gen (already!) Vario with some interesting changes - incl. easy burr calibration! I get it next week...
better anti-static design; better indents for secure grind selection; spring loaded ball dedent for bin; more."
I'm interested in the 'more'. But with easy burr calibration sounds like a winner! Though all these should have been in place in v1.5 IMO
Tristan - Mar 20, 2009 - 08:56 AM
Post subject: RE: Vario 2.0
Burrs are pretty easy on v1 if you know how to do it IMO.
The anti-static thing sounds good though... 
dsc - Mar 20, 2009 - 08:58 AM
Post subject: re
Hi Tinse
I agree that it all should've been in the recently released version, especially the burr calibration (which is pretty much there and easy adjust, but if you have no idea about that hex screw it's pretty hard to do).
I'm curious about the antistatic solution.
Regards,
dsc.
Tinseljim - Mar 25, 2009 - 05:58 PM
Post subject:
dsc wrote:
Hi guys,
the HB fellas clashed the Vario against the Mini E and the results weren't so bad for the Vario with no clear winner. I think if you get a Vario that works properly it's going to be better than the Mini E simply because it has a timer and is cheaper.
James: why don't you like the SJ?
Regards,
dsc.
The HB people have done another comparison of the Mini with a tweaked Vario and they now say the Vario 'spanks' the mini : ) and comparable to the WBC K10
In other news Mark Prince has the new model of the Vario, what he calls v.1.05
Sarion - Mar 25, 2009 - 08:59 PM
Post subject:
This sounds like a very interesting grinder to me, and not too expensive either! Might try it out! Well, at least I'll wait for the first few issues to be worked out...
Tinseljim, do you have a link to that HB test? Tried searching for spanking, but needless to say I ended up in the wrong place!
Tinseljim - Mar 27, 2009 - 12:08 AM
Post subject:
Sarion wrote:
This sounds like a very interesting grinder to me, and not too expensive either! Might try it out! Well, at least I'll wait for the first few issues to be worked out...
Tinseljim, do you have a link to that HB test? Tried searching for spanking, but needless to say I ended up in the wrong place!
sorry, here it is:
http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/baratza-vario-grinder-second-look-t10195-20.html
shm - Apr 17, 2009 - 10:02 AM
Post subject:
I got my Vario this morning. I thought it would be the newest model but it's not, it's the one with the rubber grommet. It does have the spring loaded ball to keep the bin and portaholder in place. Although the portaholder part rattles about a bit when in place it's not held as tightly as the bin.
i'm getting static like Tristan's video straight out of the box with 2 different coffees. Grinds shoot out the sides all over the counter and floor. This is enough for me to want to return it, I'm deeply disappointed as I thought this issue had been solved by Baratza/Mahlkonig.
EDIT: Update - spent a morning dialing it in and gone through over 350g of beans and still the extraction is not right. The static has died down somewhat but the portaholder is unusable because of this issue unless I grind for less than 9 secs (which gives too little in the portafilter with double basket to bother with).
Also the display keeps going off, after varying amounts of time. Sometimes 10 minutes sometimes 2 hours. Machine needs to be unplugged (to reset) before the display comes back, and you loose the presets to factory defaults when you do this.
I think for these reasons the machine is going back for a refund. Faulty electrics and the major static means the machine can't be used as intended. I may consider another Vario in the future if they can sort out the static but I wouldn't recommend buying this. My 13 year old MD40 gives better results so I'll be keeping it for the time being.
alberto_ita - Apr 17, 2009 - 11:12 PM
Post subject:
Hello to you all, friends!
I write from south of Italy, Naples, and this is my first post here!
Unfortunately, like shm, I also have received today my new Vario.
I said unfortunately because my Vario has the same problems reported up there: static issues (after 6-7 seconds of grinding the kitchen top is covered by particles of coffee) and display troubles (LCD goes off also, but usually after 15 minutes or so).
Maybe a defective batch out there?
Let's say that my disappointment raise as my choice of a new grinder (I have a Rancilio with doser) was toward E-Mazzer Mini and Vario, and I have chosen the last because Mazzer's weren't in stock...
shm - Apr 18, 2009 - 01:25 AM
Post subject:
alberto, welcome to TMC. I'm sorry you are having a similar problem. Changing beans to another roast and blend made a bit of difference but not much.
From reading lots of posts on other forums, like coffeegeek and home-barista I think this may be a batch problem, which is why I think swapping it for another from the same supplier will be a problem.
I never mentioned the taste difference, it was quite distinctly poorer than the MD40.
alberto_ita - Apr 18, 2009 - 08:53 AM
Post subject:
shm wrote:
Changing beans to another roast and blend made a bit of difference but not much.
I've 6 blends available in my house, spacing from 100% robusta to 100% arabica, and, regarding static, I'm never able to fill a double correctly, whichever time would I put on the LCD timer: after a while grounded coffee is everywhere, neither the coffee that reached the portafilter in centered, as I read the reviews out there.
Add the fact that now, after one day of more than 500g of beans grinded to try to "tune in" the grinding, the LCD display goes off every time I ground, at 5 second from the end of the grind...
My wife, also, is getting mad in cleaning coffee all around the floor, not only on the kitchen-top...
shm wrote:
From reading lots of posts on other forums, like coffeegeek and home-barista I think this may be a batch problem, which is why I think swapping it for another from the same supplier will be a problem.
I agree. I'll ask for a refund and go for some other grinder.
shm wrote:
I never mentioned the taste difference, it was quite distinctly poorer than the MD40.
I'm too biased toward the faults to judge the quality of grinding, till now...
CakeBoy - Apr 18, 2009 - 10:19 AM
Post subject:
Welcome Alberto I have fond memories of your part of the world.
EricC - Apr 18, 2009 - 07:36 PM
Post subject:
Welcome Alberto.
shm - May 22, 2009 - 09:59 PM
Post subject:
Apologies for cross posting if you've read this already on Home-Barista.
It would seem that around 200 Varios were affected by a supplier not supplying the agreed control board to the manufacturer without telling Malkonig. This resulted in failing LCDs which were not detected in QA tests because they took time to fail. Malkonig are supplying replacement control boards free of change to those affected and new units shipping from mid June will have the new control boards. Incidentally I had Vario with a batch number in the early 300s ( i think).
I wonder if cheaper/inferior control board had something to do with the excessive static I experienced.
Tristan - May 23, 2009 - 05:37 PM
Post subject:
THe static issues seem to come and go with mine. It ranges from dumping coffee perfectly in the centre, to spraying coffee all over the place. Darkness of roast does play a part, but the same bag of coffee can act differently from day to day. Inexplicable. I am toying with the idea that the portafilter is to blame though, rather than the grinder.
I wanted to do a blog post on static, but it's pointless unless I can find some kind of proven cure.
kingseven - May 23, 2009 - 06:03 PM
Post subject:
Have you tried earthing the portafiter somehow? I remember a Mahlkoenig Guatemala that ground into a little metal pan that was earthed.
Jasonscheltus - May 23, 2009 - 06:16 PM
Post subject:
i asked my flour-milling uncle about static problems and he groaned. Flour, when very fine and airborne, turns out to be quite explosive, so static is something the milling industry have worked very hard against.
the only advice he had for me in regards to grinders, was earthing every well. Checking the earthing wiring inside the grinder, or running a hefty separate ground cable physically into the earth.
Gouezeri - May 24, 2009 - 02:28 AM
Post subject:
I remember the topic of anti static mats coming up quite a while back, but I can neither find the thread nor remember what the conclusion was. Might be worth looking into though (along with Jason's suggestion).
shm - May 24, 2009 - 11:08 AM
Post subject:
i know this is a new product and most people who have one are happy with them, but i think it should just work without having to do anything to modify it or to need tops off yoghurt pots, pins on sticks or archane rituals to get some ground beans in a basket.
I think the vario needed another 12 months r&d/testing before they brought it to market.
al_bongo - May 24, 2009 - 04:53 PM
Post subject:
Using a yoghurt pot was a cracking tip for using with my Iberital and I suspect any doserless grinder. I also use a bamboo skewer to release the excess coffee from the chute, so "arcane tips" are not limited to the Vario.
I'm sure you could argue the case for another 12 months r&d for most new products which come on the market. The risk is then you never get any new products because you can always spend another 12 months perfecting it.
Yes a poduct has to be of a certain standard by the time it comes to market but what is just as important to me is that the manufacturer keeps on developing the product to make it better, after it hits the shelf.
PS Don't own a Vario but am a prospective customer.
alberto_ita - May 25, 2009 - 09:23 AM
Post subject:
al_bongo wrote:
Yes a poduct has to be of a certain standard by the time it comes to market but what is just as important to me is that the manufacturer keeps on developing the product to make it better, after it hits the shelf.
I disagree. One thing are the improvement on a working product, one the misfunctions from day one.
However, I would never think of buying a Mahlkonig again.
shm - May 25, 2009 - 10:21 AM
Post subject:
i think alberto and i, having had negative experiences of the vario, are bound to be biased. I'm sure the first mazzer minis to be sold probably worked pretty much as they do now. I'd definately recomend a second hand mazzer over a new vario any day.
daveyb - May 26, 2009 - 11:52 PM
Post subject:
Each to his own! If you have had a bad experience then nothing will change that. My own experience has been positive and I am happy to have downgraded from a K30 to the VArio.
alberto_ita - May 27, 2009 - 07:57 AM
Post subject:
shm wrote:
i think alberto and i, having had negative experiences of the vario, are bound to be biased. I'm sure the first mazzer minis to be sold probably worked pretty much as they do now. I'd definately recomend a second hand mazzer over a new vario any day.
I completely agree here, Stephen 
I swapped the broken Vario with a brand new small Macap w/doser and the difference in building quality, weight, aesthetic finish, and a working doser design (little or no coffee deposit when doser is emptied) vs. my Vario doserless (clumsy and static issues, coffee going everywhere but the portafilter) have made me don't look back.
I think a bigger used Mazzer could have been better in ultimate quality and more convenient for the same € amount I spent, but after all I'm italian and when I saw the Macap shining chrome nearby the Duetto similar finiture I was in heaven , both for the look and results, that are quite stunning for a home equipment, I believe.
HughF - May 27, 2009 - 01:51 PM
Post subject:
If you compare my Mini E and Macap MXK for build quality at a similar price, it's not that different. For example, the Mini E on-off switch is lovely to use BUT the Macap's switch is protected against water (a really good idea) and much more solid - that's pretty typical really of both machines (slicker Mazzer, stronger, more practical Macap) and the prices of both are similar. The Macap MXK will probably still be standing after our house is nuked, the Mini E is less likely to survive.
Cheers,
Hugh